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Old 07-16-2018, 05:13 PM
  #6961  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver View Post
Eggs over zactly.

And I'm sure the AA guys are saying "we can only match UAL on the 777, can't go over"....

Not.

But the funny part it was coming from our own pilots. Well you are already the highest pay so you get nothing. I get it most of the raise needed to go to the bus but I always thought the fact that guys were will to just skip over it was funny.
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Old 07-16-2018, 08:40 PM
  #6962  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver View Post
Got it, so no other airline is permitted to exceed the highest pay rate per airframe that exists in the industry? Or there is some limit to how much above another airlines top rate you can go?

Did the mediator tell us to remove SWA from the pay comparisons because they don't operate the A320?
That's not how it works. The mediator is nothing more than an agent of for progress. We are under no legal obligation to accept any suggestions whatsoever. If we do, it is purely our OPTION that we foolishly do. The RLA covers this. The entire mediation process is nothing more than a series of attempts at VOLUNTARY resolution.

The Railway Labor Act Simplified

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:05 AM
  #6963  
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Originally Posted by queue View Post
That's not how it works. The mediator is nothing more than an agent of for progress. We are under no legal obligation to accept any suggestions whatsoever. If we do, it is purely our OPTION that we foolishly do. The RLA covers this. The entire mediation process is nothing more than a series of attempts at VOLUNTARY resolution.

The Railway Labor Act Simplified

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
Maybe you missed my sarcasm?
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Old 07-17-2018, 09:06 PM
  #6964  
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Originally Posted by queue View Post
That's not how it works. The mediator is nothing more than an agent of for progress. We are under no legal obligation to accept any suggestions whatsoever. If we do, it is purely our OPTION that we foolishly do. The RLA covers this. The entire mediation process is nothing more than a series of attempts at VOLUNTARY resolution.

The Railway Labor Act Simplified

This communique is for entertainment purposes only. It does not implicitly or explicitly acknowledge employment with any air carrier nor is any relationship implied. This communique does not represent the opinions or policies of ALPA or JB ALPA and does not represent the collective pilot group, ALPA, nor does it imply collective bargaining, advocacy, or workforce actions intended to disrupt operations.
You are correct that we are under no legal obligation to accept any suggestions from the mediator. But...is clear that the NMB must release us, and the NMB relies on the mediator for input, and the NMB controls the availability of the mediator, and this is used to exert pressure on both sides. While we don't have to take the deal that mediation gets us to and we can pound your fist on the table and say no all day...we'll never have a contract because this NMB isn't releasing anyone.
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Old 07-18-2018, 09:26 AM
  #6965  
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Originally Posted by expectholding View Post
You are correct that we are under no legal obligation to accept any suggestions from the mediator. But...is clear that the NMB must release us, and the NMB relies on the mediator for input, and the NMB controls the availability of the mediator, and this is used to exert pressure on both sides. While we don't have to take the deal that mediation gets us to and we can pound your fist on the table and say no all day...we'll never have a contract because this NMB isn't releasing anyone.
So why bother negotiating? According to you we have ZERO leverage since a strike will never happen. Why not just de-certify ALPA and keep the dues money?

After all, we have to take what they give us. We have no other recourse.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:53 AM
  #6966  
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Originally Posted by PasserOGas View Post
So why bother negotiating? According to you we have ZERO leverage since a strike will never happen. Why not just de-certify ALPA and keep the dues money?

After all, we have to take what they give us. We have no other recourse.
And by your logic nothing less than first tier in every section is acceptable. No contract in this industry is top tier in every section. Not delta. Not united. not AA.

This TA brings us up to speed. It puts us right in the middle in most sections. Top tier in others. And behind in some others.

Your point of view is obsurdly misguided.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:47 AM
  #6967  
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*not acceptable*

If I may pull my best Trump impersonation.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:01 PM
  #6968  
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Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand View Post
And by your logic nothing less than first tier in every section is acceptable. No contract in this industry is top tier in every section. Not delta. Not united. not AA.

This TA brings us up to speed. It puts us right in the middle in most sections. Top tier in others. And behind in some others.

Your point of view is obsurdly misguided.
Untrue. Market rate in every section. Heck, at this point market rate in the majority of the sections would suffice.

You seem to be happy with market rate in one or two. You also don't seem to care that we are very far behind in most of the most important ones.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:08 PM
  #6969  
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Originally Posted by PasserOGas View Post
Untrue. Market rate in every section. Heck, at this point market rate in the majority of the sections would suffice.

You seem to be happy with market rate in one or two. You also don't seem to care that we are very far behind in most of the most important ones.
I guess our important ones are different.

Mine are scope, work rules, and retirement. All of which are at or above market rate.
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Old 07-18-2018, 12:20 PM
  #6970  
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Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand View Post
I guess our important ones are different.

Mine are scope, work rules, and retirement. All of which are at or above market rate.
Scope = market rate

Vacation (even though you didn't mention it) = slightly below market rate. But it's at least close.

Work rules? Again not even close. Huge gaping loopholes throughout. Airports standby, complete lack of a commuter clause, dependibility driven pilot pushing, and on and on.

Retirement? Only if you retire at 65. Massively, massively, massively below market rate if you retire before that.

Pay (again one you ignore)? Do I need to even go there?
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