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Old 07-31-2021, 03:07 AM
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Surprised at how little K2 info is out there.

Just thought I would give a little info in case anyone is interested.

The positives are that overall, this is a very laid back and easy job. The flying is not difficult, even the night CVG stuff. The IBC flying from Miami can be a long day, but it is usually not difficult. Crews are pretty easy going and fun to work with for the most part. Crew members keep all hotel points and status, and it racks up pretty quickly. Most hotels are Hilton brand, with some Marriott, and occasionally another brand. Overall the hotel standard is pretty good. The company is currently still providing a hotel in CVG during the entire rotation, so during the night sort, you can get three to four hours of sleep in your own hotel room and not have to try and sleep in the snoring palace at DHL. Rumors that the CVG hotel will be going away soon are rampant. But so far nothing has come from the company. New CP just announced and he is a good guy who has worked hard for the pilots. The consensus is that he will be good in that position.

That leads me into the negatives. New CP just announced and he is a good guy who has worked hard for the pilots. But that takes away the guy who has been spearheading the push for improvements and puts him into management. So it is a wait and see if anyone will step up and fill his shoes. A (very) small (and frankly insulting) pay raise was given in May. Overall compensation is well behind just about anyone else out there. 401k matching is an abysmal 1.25%. Vacation is only five days per year and you have to wait a full year to claim it. It may end up falling in the middle of a 13 day work rotation. Scheduling may be able to change it so it can be tacked on at the beginning or end of a rotation, but that is subject to crew availability. Scheduling can be a bit rigid. It is a 13/10 roster, and very little bidding variability. Last bid the had just a few CVG lines, a few MIA lines, and the vast majority was ad-Hoc lines, despite being very little ad-Hoc flying. So basically it is just 13 days of standby duty in CVG. Kind of goes with the territory with this kind of operation. Scheduling seems to be unable to make multiple hotel reservations, so once you get stuck on a high fatigue run, like CVG-MDT-BDL, you will be on it all week and be completely thrashed at the end of the five days. Scheduling will not break it up to reduce fatigue due to the aforementioned inability to make multiple hotel reservations.

Other points: the rift between the 727 and 737 guys seems to be mostly healed. I think there is a recognition that whatever the issues were, most of the crews were not at the root of those issues. I do get the sense that the group is far more unified in their goals to make some improvements. Not certain, but my guess is a union drive will commence as soon as the waiting period from decertifying Teamsters expires.

Hopefully that info is helpful to those who might be considering moving to K2. In many ways it is not a bad place to hang out for a little bit. I think the ops guys overall are pretty good folks. I have already mentioned the new CP, but the director of training and his staff are good as well.
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Old 07-31-2021, 09:28 AM
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Is the pay-scale on APC correct? I saw on one of the websites that captains started at 150 an hour with a 50 hour guarantee. Also, i see they are hiring direct captains. If one were to come in meeting 121 requirements without the 737 type or time in type, how long would it be to upgrade assuming that person is ready? Also also, am I reading this correctly that the domicile is YIP, but you sit reserve in CVG? Do you have to live near YIP or could you live near CVG? I left there in 2013. I was flying the DC-9. Any pilots still there from then?

Last edited by UNDGUY; 07-31-2021 at 09:58 AM.
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Old 08-01-2021, 02:53 AM
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Originally Posted by UNDGUY View Post
Is the pay-scale on APC correct? I saw on one of the websites that captains started at 150 an hour with a 50 hour guarantee. Also, i see they are hiring direct captains. If one were to come in meeting 121 requirements without the 737 type or time in type, how long would it be to upgrade assuming that person is ready? Also also, am I reading this correctly that the domicile is YIP, but you sit reserve in CVG? Do you have to live near YIP or could you live near CVG? I left there in 2013. I was flying the DC-9. Any pilots still there from then?
Pay scales are out of date as of the most recent pay raise. I will have to dig in to my emails to get the correct current rates. Hourly rate went down, guarantee went up, and the net result was roughly a 2.5% pay raise. You will NEVER break guarantee, so don't count on that. Basically take the current published rates on APC, calculate that against a 50 hour guarantee, and then add 2.5% and you will be almost spot on what the new monthly pay would be.

Base is YIP, but hotels are provided anywhere and everywhere when you are at work, even in the rare instances you actually end up in YIP. This is now true for all crews and was apparently one of the issues between the 727 crews and the 737 crews, as the 737 crews did not get hotels covered in YIP. BTW, I didn't know this before I started, but YIP is so close to DTW that most YIP area hotels have shuttles to/from DTW. Typically just a 10-15 minute drive to the terminals at DTW from the YIP hotels. But the vast majority of crews end up spending their 13 days in CVG, with a few down in MIA for the IBC island flying (aka the "Southern Command"), and usually one crew up in OSC for MX stuff (cough...405...cough...). Haven't heard of anyone hanging out in YIP in quite a while. Virtually everyone commutes. We have KCM and CASS, and agreements with everyone, so commuting is not a problem. Some guys do actually drive to CVG just so they have a car with them during their 13 days. (EDIT - Just for clarification, it is the crew member's responsibility to get to YIP/DTW at the start of the 13 days. The company will provide transportation to/from YIP/DTW to wherever they need you, whether it is CVG, MIA, OSC, or somewhere else, during your rotation. Typically it will be a company car if it is CVG or OSC. But most guys just commute on their own directly to wherever they need to be. When the schedules for your rotation are published, they will ask if you need transportation to/from YIP and they will then arrange it. You are not expected or required to jumpseat when the company should be covering the transportation.)

Regarding direct entry captains, that can be hit or miss. Most of the turnover is among the FOs. There is a pretty solid core of captains, probably the top half of the captains list, that seem pretty entrenched at K2. They have carved out a nice existence for themselves and seem rather content, so they aren't going anywhere. The bottom half of the captain's are usually upgrades, but filled in with direct entry when they do not have enough qualified FOs. There have been a few guys come on board recently with 121 PIC time, and a 737 type (but no 737 time), who got direct entry captain. But I don't know if such a thing can be counted on. My guess is that if you were to come on meeting all FAR 121 captain requirements, upgrade would be fairly quick, within six months. But don't hold me to that.

Last edited by ObadiahDogberry; 08-01-2021 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 08-21-2021, 06:53 AM
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So K2 doesn't have home basing, a shame. What do the hours per month look like out there for someone who has zero Part 121 time looking out towards a future upgrade. Is it worth adding a FE Turbojet Written to my resume to secure a job, or just apply for a FO position? What do your seat locks look like, or are you pretty much glued to whichever fleet you started on? Do the 727s all smell like horses or are the cockpits just regular ancient freight hauler smell? What am I not asking that I really should know.
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Old 08-21-2021, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ObadiahDogberry View Post
Surprised at how little K2 info is out there.

Just thought I would give a little info in case anyone is interested.

The positives are that overall, this is a very laid back and easy job. The flying is not difficult, even the night CVG stuff. The IBC flying from Miami can be a long day, but it is usually not difficult. Crews are pretty easy going and fun to work with for the most part. Crew members keep all hotel points and status, and it racks up pretty quickly. Most hotels are Hilton brand, with some Marriott, and occasionally another brand. Overall the hotel standard is pretty good. The company is currently still providing a hotel in CVG during the entire rotation, so during the night sort, you can get three to four hours of sleep in your own hotel room and not have to try and sleep in the snoring palace at DHL. Rumors that the CVG hotel will be going away soon are rampant. But so far nothing has come from the company. New CP just announced and he is a good guy who has worked hard for the pilots. The consensus is that he will be good in that position.

That leads me into the negatives. New CP just announced and he is a good guy who has worked hard for the pilots. But that takes away the guy who has been spearheading the push for improvements and puts him into management. So it is a wait and see if anyone will step up and fill his shoes. A (very) small (and frankly insulting) pay raise was given in May. Overall compensation is well behind just about anyone else out there. 401k matching is an abysmal 1.25%. Vacation is only five days per year and you have to wait a full year to claim it. It may end up falling in the middle of a 13 day work rotation. Scheduling may be able to change it so it can be tacked on at the beginning or end of a rotation, but that is subject to crew availability. Scheduling can be a bit rigid. It is a 13/10 roster, and very little bidding variability. Last bid the had just a few CVG lines, a few MIA lines, and the vast majority was ad-Hoc lines, despite being very little ad-Hoc flying. So basically it is just 13 days of standby duty in CVG. Kind of goes with the territory with this kind of operation. Scheduling seems to be unable to make multiple hotel reservations, so once you get stuck on a high fatigue run, like CVG-MDT-BDL, you will be on it all week and be completely thrashed at the end of the five days. Scheduling will not break it up to reduce fatigue due to the aforementioned inability to make multiple hotel reservations.

Other points: the rift between the 727 and 737 guys seems to be mostly healed. I think there is a recognition that whatever the issues were, most of the crews were not at the root of those issues. I do get the sense that the group is far more unified in their goals to make some improvements. Not certain, but my guess is a union drive will commence as soon as the waiting period from decertifying Teamsters expires.

Hopefully that info is helpful to those who might be considering moving to K2. In many ways it is not a bad place to hang out for a little bit. I think the ops guys overall are pretty good folks. I have already mentioned the new CP, but the director of training and his staff are good as well.
Getting rid of the SCAB CP is a first good move ( unless he stayed in some other management position)
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Old 08-21-2021, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Demoman View Post
Getting rid of the SCAB CP is a first good move ( unless he stayed in some other management position)
Please take that kind of talk somewhere else. Maybe to the union section, but it doesn't belong here. Mike was one of the best chief pilots we ever had. He is also my friend and he is a very good person. If you work here at K2 try answering the guy's question and being helpful instead of this kind of nonsense.
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Old 08-21-2021, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by DVNO View Post
So K2 doesn't have home basing, a shame. What do the hours per month look like out there for someone who has zero Part 121 time looking out towards a future upgrade. Is it worth adding a FE Turbojet Written to my resume to secure a job, or just apply for a FO position? What do your seat locks look like, or are you pretty much glued to whichever fleet you started on? Do the 727s all smell like horses or are the cockpits just regular ancient freight hauler smell? What am I not asking that I really should know.
Well, we do have home basing with a twist. If you're going to YIP, then that is your base and you get there on your own. There is no 737 flying in YIP and very little 727 flying there. The planes mostly fly out of CVG and Miami. But if you do go to YIP, the company provides hotels, so no matter where you go with K2, you will never have any lodging expense. I would recommend against the FE thing, just because that is a dying career unfortunately. The 727s don't smell, but they are old because they are 727s, but they are well maintained. Yes, whichever fleet you end up on you are stuck on because we don't have the ability to switch equipment. That being said, the growth at K2 right now is with the 737s. We used to have DC-9s and when we parked them, all the DC-9 pilots joined us (in seniority) on the 737 fleet. The 727 pilots I'm certain will follow suit and join us on the 737 as soon as they are parked.
Please feel free to ask any other questions that you might have and I will do my best to give you a straight answer.
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Old 08-21-2021, 12:49 PM
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Thanks for the reply JP, I have a buddy who recently made the switch over from my current company over to K2 and he's telling me how much greener the grass is over there. What's the fleet with the better flight hours, or are they about the same. Flight hours per month close to monthly block min? I'm more attracted to the 727 for the three man/three hole experience, but flying cool ancient equipment isn't the only factor for me. Do all the planes have FMCs or are they /A birds? What's upgrade look like, I assume it's as soon as you meet 121 requirements given the street Captain hiring. What's the general FE background, mechanics turned PFE, former military guys, or pilots on a stepping stone? Is K2 parking 727s already or is that just a rumor?

Thanks for the quick reply, I'm just looking ahead for when I'm ready to make the next career step.
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Old 08-22-2021, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by DVNO View Post
Thanks for the reply JP, I have a buddy who recently made the switch over from my current company over to K2 and he's telling me how much greener the grass is over there. What's the fleet with the better flight hours, or are they about the same. Flight hours per month close to monthly block min? I'm more attracted to the 727 for the three man/three hole experience, but flying cool ancient equipment isn't the only factor for me. Do all the planes have FMCs or are they /A birds? What's upgrade look like, I assume it's as soon as you meet 121 requirements given the street Captain hiring. What's the general FE background, mechanics turned PFE, former military guys, or pilots on a stepping stone? Is K2 parking 727s already or is that just a rumor?

Thanks for the quick reply, I'm just looking ahead for when I'm ready to make the next career step.
I'm happy to help. Right now, I think the 727s are flying more hours, but that is just a guess. I think some of the 727s have FMCs. All of our 737s are EFIS with FMCs, there are no analog 737s at K2. I believe that our FEs are professional engineers with their A&P. They are mostly older guys and many are former military. The parking of the 727s is a rumor that comes and goes, but the same thing happened with the DC-9s and they did get parked. The guarantee is 60hrs on all equipment. I don't think we have many guys going over the 60 right now but it certainly does happen. Depends on what route you get. Upgrade here is seniority first then having the hours and the ability. I have seen guys upgrade within 6 or 8 months but they had previous 121 PIC time on different equipment. The hiring of street captains here does happen every now and then, but only after they have gone through the seniority list looking at all potential upgrades. It will happen say when we are adding airframes and we have run out of FOs that are ready at that time.
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Old 08-22-2021, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jetpowered View Post
Please take that kind of talk somewhere else. Maybe to the union section, but it doesn't belong here. Mike was one of the best chief pilots we ever had. He is also my friend and he is a very good person. If you work here at K2 try answering the guy's question and being helpful instead of this kind of nonsense.
Mike is the definition of SCAB , having a SCAB for a CP effect the operation in a big way , he wouldn't have moved an inch in this business without crossing the line...when you give people information make sure you give the entire picture...
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