Kalitta TA Released to Members
 

This is the product of how many years of negotiations??? Did they release this on Thanksgiving Eve hoping we would be tipsy enough to vote for this thing?

since when do trolls start threads?

Call me what you want, bro. The TA doesn't have Appendix 5-A (pay rates), the Duty Time Limit Chart in Section 18 is blank, the second footnote on the first page of Section 17 (embedded in the Duty Day section) discusses "(5) day minimum"...five days of what?

you mighr want to take some time and read the TA before you make judgements. ..if the pay rates are not there its an oversite from 1224..the table will be filled in after arbitration over hours of service..as for other i.ll look

Check the bottom of page 101, "Minimum Consecutive Scheduled Duty Free Days Off."

It'll Pass by a range of 68-72 %.

"former kalitta?" If that's true, then why the eff do you care? Work for Dan Wells?

" Did they release this on Thanksgiving Eve hoping we would be tipsy enough to vote for this thing?"

LOL....Maybe he is thinking he is going to become "Former Kalitta " based on the results of this contract/vote. ?

Kat Man Do

Did you guys get any new work rules in this TA?

fewer days working, certainly fewer hours of service across the board.. though extendable.... there are a few others as well.... When I get a chance I will summarize those.

Not good, not good at all.

6 Years for this? There is no difference.

http://shoebat.com/wp-content/upload...ilet-paper.jpg

This is a contract that should have been signed ten years ago. All this negotioating and this is the best?

I hope this thing gets voted down.

Anyone have a link to the new TA?

Actually looks pretty good!!
I like the pay rates, The Business Class travel, The 16 day's are nice but were stuck with the crazy GSA language, The 6 hr pay for getting home late, Hostile area pay, Same pay for 767 and 747, Much better language! Signing bonus seems weak though. Nothing I see is a deal killer. My vote is Yes!

Yeah, it does seem to clarify "Minimum Consecutive Scheduled Duty Free Days" on pages 101 and 102. Not sure why it's placed on page 93.

Hostile Area Pay, do you really think that's going to amount to much with the company in control? Sounds like the fox will be in charge of the hen house to me.

"The Company will identify and maintain a list of locations identified as
Hostile Areas. The Company may add or remove locations from the list
of locations identified as Hostile Areas."

I think there is quite a bit more to the section then your letting on Former Kalitta.

Why are former Kalitta and Atlas guys trying to submarine our TA?
Let Kalitta Guys decide!!





B. Hostile Areas
1.
Definition of Hostile Area
The term "Hostile Area" means:
a.
Any geographic area so designated by agreement of the Parties; or
b.
A geographic area outside the United States of America in which (i) there
is a declaration of war, active combat operations, or acts of terrorism are
occurring or are imminently threatened at times when Crewmembers are
or would be assigned to such area and (ii) there is a materially higher risk
and an imminent threat of physical harm or danger to Company aircraft
and/or Company personnel as a result thereof.
c.
A smaller geographic unit within a country (e.g., a city) may be identified
as a Hostile Area without rendering the entire country a Hostile Area.
2.
Identification of Hostile Areas
a.
The Company will identify and maintain a list of locations identified as
Hostile Areas. The Company may add or remove locations from the list
of locations identified as Hostile Areas.
b.
The Company will provide the Union with fourteen (14) days notice prior
to the removal of any location from the list of locations identified as
Hostile Areas. The Company shall also notify the Union of any additions
to the list of locations identified as Hostile Areas.
3.
Hostile Area Disputes
a.
If a dispute arises as to whether a location is or is not a Hostile Area,
representatives of the Company and Union shall meet within seven (7)
days of the initial meeting request to attempt resolution. If parties cannot
reach a resolution, within seven (7) days of the meeting, the matter shall
be heard before the first available arbitrator from the standing panel
named in Section 20.
Pending the outcome of the expedited interest arbitration, an area shall
not be designated as a "
Hostile Area;" provided, if the location is
designated as a “Hostile Area,” Crewmembers will receive applicable
Hostile Area compensation on a retroactive basis for trips to and from the
location during the period of time the location was designated as a Hostile
Area by an Arbitrator.

The Atlas boys are trying to defeat our TA because it doesn't benefit THEM. Lets not have short memories. Lets not forget how hard they tried to down any agreement that they didn't approve of just a few short weeks ago. Screw them. This is about US, the Kalitta pilots and ONLY us. The rest of them, those who don't walk on our property nor eat at our table, are just furthering their own agenda and attempting to do so at our expense. See them for what they are...

I've been reading it, and I like it as well. No, it's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

There are 1400 Atlas pilots. A small number are posting here.

This Atlas pilot, and I am confident that most Atlas pilots, wish you guys the best and recognize that this is your decision.

Thank you
I'm at K4 and I appreciate you saying what you said-

I am a yes vote for the TA

I mean this with zero animosity as this decision obviously belongs to Kalitta pilots. However, I lol when I read all the mud slinging toward Atlas guys who want to "torpedo" your TA's because it doesn't benefit them, or want to improve their situation at YOUR expense. Do you guys realize what the Atlas guys are spewing is called standards?......The only way Atlas guys benefit is if you guys set the bar really high. That's hardly reproachable. Consider how foolish you guys sound bashing Atlas pilots: "Gee this damn Atlas guys are sabotaging our efforts pushing us to demand industry standard contract.....how dare they. They just want to benefit at our expense. Why should we make lots of money and work less just so they can do the same? F the Atlas guys." In any case, good luck with the new TA. If it gets signed hope its great for everyone if it doesn't, hope the next one gets done quickly. Cheers.

We've had trouble with similar language at Atlas.... Nigeria was deemed as not hostile for years after everyone knew who Boko Haram was. With that language you'll have tons of trouble.

Tight language costs money.

I agree 100%!

I agree with you 100% that it isn't the majority of Atlas pilots. It just isn't. However, there are a few Atlas pilots in the union leadership who in fact would love and have tried, to sabotage a contract for the K4 crews. We all know who they are and what their agenda is. It certainly isn't the betterment of the situation at K4.

I'm sure any K4 people
would be happy to share some bar space with any, with one notable exception, Atlas crew.

Pay rates? Retirement? Days off? Medical?

Post the TA already!

That's some pretty strong words for a union member to spout about his fellow union brothers and sisters. But, maybe unionism isn't your thing. Maybe it's all about you. Maybe that's why we didn't see you walking the line this week during the ABX strike. Maybe it's easier for you to point your finger at your fellow union members and blame us for your lot in life when we all know that only Connie Kalitta controls your destiny. Using any Atlas pilots as a scapegoat for your contract woes is disgusting and it's wrong.

8

Lemme guess....Cliffy?

Been looking at K4 for awhile now and I've considered applying depending upon this TA.

Heard there was language allowing for home basing anywhere in the world and business class tickets on DH? Can someone clarify that?

As for the hostile areas, I agree. That shouldn't be decided by the company, but probably by the state department website, especially if you are working a government contract. I spent a fair amount of time in some of those places, just look at the uplift for certain companies in Africa or the Middle East that technically aren't in the middle of a war.

Thanks in advance.

Your "Resident Airport" is defined as an airport located within the 48 contiguous states. The RA for Alaska is defined as ANC and the RA for Hawaii is defined as HNL. Pretty sure if you want to live in another country, you're on your own to get yourself to those airports for your company-provided travel. However, the company has historically provided some travel to some crews living overseas from other places, IF it was convenient to the company. That doesn't mean the trend will continue.

For business class DH, the company will provide business class or better for any flight segment scheduled to exceed 3 hours flight time, provided it departs from or arrives at an OCONUS location. So if you live in, say, Dallas, and you need to get to ANC, your ticket from DFW-ORD might be in coach but your ORD-ANC leg will be business class (or first, since there is no business class "domestically"). There is also an option for the crewmember to decline the business class travel and take some cash instead ($250 or $500, depending on the length).

I couldn't see the company ever agreeing to your State Department idea, whether that might be a good idea or not. Just glancing at the State website, there are travel warnings for the Philippines, Haiti, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, and many other places. In this line of business we would be making hostile area pay for almost every place we go, and that would be a deal-breaker for the company.

Piggy backing on this... Our language at Atlas is virtually identical and we attempted to argue that if the military deems the area to be Tax Free/Hostile Fire that it should automatically be Hostile for Atlas. We lost. I'm sure Kalitta will get Iraq and Afghanistan with that language but I wouldn't trust Connie as far as I could throw him for anywhere else.

Thanks for the heads up about the travel situation and good luck, I'll be keeping a close eye on what is going on over there.

The key though on the second part is the % uplift, not travel warnings. My company for example works government and private contracts (we are not 121). The government contracts follow the state department recommendations, which is already allotted for in the contract when it is written and should be paid for by the government anyways. I never understood why that rule doesn't seem to apply to the 121 supplemental as it does do the PT 91 and 135 operators like MAG-D, Berry, and L3. Our commercial contracts abroad just pay our standard overseas rate and carry tax advantages with no uplift.

But again, sorry I didn't clarify earlier. I'm just spit balling here and pointing out what government contracts pay abroad. Philippines and Saudi, actually don't have a danger or hazard % uplift at all, only hardship differential (which you wouldn't qualify since you are only there for a few days.) Haiti and Mexico have a 15% uplift. To be honest Mindanao (the southernmost major island of PH) probably should, though I don't think any of the strips on that island can handle a 747 anyways. Just to give you more examples of the places K4 might commonly flies too, UAE, UK, France, Bahrain, and HKG all of which have zero uplift.


Here is the website.

https://aoprals.state.gov/web920/loc...asp?menu_id=95

Thanks again.

Sure, this TA doesn't benefit the Atlas pilots but it doesn't benefit the Kalitta pilots either. Those of us making negative remarks about the TA do not live in a vacuum. Please compare the details of your TA with the CBAs of American, Delta, United, FedEx, UPS, and Southwest. This is the TA grading standard that the Kalitta pilots should be using and it will be the grading standard that the Atlas pilots will be using on their own TA, when that time comes.

The only reason a pilot group's CBA is sub-standard at this point is because they allow it to be (this statement not only applies to Kalitta, but Atlas as well).

Lots of talk about Atlas vs Kalitta, talk about hazardous areas definition, but NO discussion on compensation, health insurance, vacation, etc. Why is the meat of the issue not being discussed?

Perhaps we think that instead of DW and a couple of his minions deciding whats best for the K4 crews, its best that we decide that for ourselves, without interference from the party central committee. Its called freedom. Since you brought it up, how much shoe leather did YOU wear out walking the line with the ABX crews this week? Did you see any K4 pilots crossing a picket line? Simply put, we want the right to self determination. I will say it again since you and a couple others seem to be engaging in campaign to sabotage the vote on our TA, if you don't eat at our table, if you don't work on our property, you dont have the right to determine how we will vote nor live. Since doing that, since thwarting the will of those who's lives and families are affected to benefit the agenda of yourself and several others is even more "wrong and disgusting" Have you noticed that a large majority of us have our middle finger raised to those few of you involved in this?

Check the posts on the Kalitta hiring thread around August 27-28th. Someone posted the pay scales then and they should be the ones that ended up in the TA.

CAPTAIN
Years DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3
1 130.80 137.34 142.84 149.98
2 167.14 175.49 182.51 191.64
3 193.63 203.31 211.44 222.01
4 199.75 209.74 218.13 229.03
5 207.89 218.28 227.01 238.36
6 214.01 224.71 233.70 245.38
7 220.13 231.14 240.38 252.40
8 226.24 237.55 247.05 259.40
9 232.36 243.98 253.74 266.42
10 238.45 250.37 260.39 273.41
11 244.57 256.80 267.08 280.43
12 249.67 262.16 272.64 286.28



FO
Years DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3
1 101.56 106.63 110.90 116.44
2 113.65 119.33 124.10 130.31
3 131.66 138.24 143.77 150.96
4 135.81 142.60 148.31 155.72
5 141.36 148.43 154.37 162.08
6 145.51 152.79 158.90 166.85
7 149.70 157.18 163.47 171.64
8 153.84 161.53 167.99 176.39
9 158.01 165.91 172.54 181.17
10 162.15 170.25 177.06 185.92
11 165.39 173.65 180.60 189.63
12 168.70 177.14 184.22 193.43