Kalitta T/A - Tasty Tidbits
11-28-2016, 10:40 AM
#51
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Stimpy the Kat
" The negotiating committee should be embarrassed. " - Code Red
Absolutely NOT. These guys worked endlessly to get to this point.
I spoke with a certain member of the Union structure and we discussed the theory of diminishing returns and how we may have reached that point.
So, it has been put out for a vote by the membership to decide whether we continue on or vote this in, and correctly so. If they had continued on for another 6-months to a year I'm sure people would be screaming over that...So, ultimately the decision is now left to US.
I agree with most of your observations regarding rig, scheduling, work rules, etc. but, can not agree with the above quoted statement.
We are at where we are at and it is what it is...The main thing is it's in OUR hands now.
I don't like certain parts as discussed, however... I also see the point in further delay negating any more benefit and actually resulting in loss in some areas.
Vote your conscience.
Absolutely NOT. These guys worked endlessly to get to this point.
I spoke with a certain member of the Union structure and we discussed the theory of diminishing returns and how we may have reached that point.
So, it has been put out for a vote by the membership to decide whether we continue on or vote this in, and correctly so. If they had continued on for another 6-months to a year I'm sure people would be screaming over that...So, ultimately the decision is now left to US.
I agree with most of your observations regarding rig, scheduling, work rules, etc. but, can not agree with the above quoted statement.
We are at where we are at and it is what it is...The main thing is it's in OUR hands now.
I don't like certain parts as discussed, however... I also see the point in further delay negating any more benefit and actually resulting in loss in some areas.
Vote your conscience.
11-28-2016, 10:46 AM
#52
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: 747-8 FO
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by Stimpy the Kat
" The negotiating committee should be embarrassed. " - Code Red
Absolutely NOT. These guys worked endlessly to get to this point.
I spoke with a certain member of the Union structure and we discussed the theory of diminishing returns and how we may have reached that point.
So, it has been put out for a vote by the membership to decide whether we continue on or vote this in, and correctly so. If they had continued on for another 6-months to a year I'm sure people would be screaming over that...So, ultimately the decision is now left to US.
I agree with most of your observations regarding rig, scheduling, work rules, etc. but, can not agree with the above quoted statement.
We are at where we are at and it is what it is...The main thing is it's in OUR hands now.
I don't like certain parts as discussed, however... I also see the point in further delay negating any more benefit and actually resulting in loss in some areas.
Vote your conscience.
Absolutely NOT. These guys worked endlessly to get to this point.
I spoke with a certain member of the Union structure and we discussed the theory of diminishing returns and how we may have reached that point.
So, it has been put out for a vote by the membership to decide whether we continue on or vote this in, and correctly so. If they had continued on for another 6-months to a year I'm sure people would be screaming over that...So, ultimately the decision is now left to US.
I agree with most of your observations regarding rig, scheduling, work rules, etc. but, can not agree with the above quoted statement.
We are at where we are at and it is what it is...The main thing is it's in OUR hands now.
I don't like certain parts as discussed, however... I also see the point in further delay negating any more benefit and actually resulting in loss in some areas.
Vote your conscience.
11-28-2016, 10:52 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by newb2
I understand your frustration and as such I suggest you vote accordingly.
But and however, the problem is not the negotiating committee, it was and is the mediator because he was not going to release us to self-help. So knowing this it would be better to turn over this abomination of a contract for the rank and file to vote down.
The only problem with this scenario is the old guys are voting for the contract, and every one of the new guys I have spoken to are also voting for the contract. Without exception they have all said they will only be here until they find a new job and they want the money. So like it or not this is what we are up against.
So I will say it one more time for those that did not understand it the last time. Quit blaming Dan Wells, I believe the reason he did not want to sign off on this contract is because in today’s market it is a joke. If this POS is voted in, there will be no one to blame other than Kalitta pilots.
But and however, the problem is not the negotiating committee, it was and is the mediator because he was not going to release us to self-help. So knowing this it would be better to turn over this abomination of a contract for the rank and file to vote down.
The only problem with this scenario is the old guys are voting for the contract, and every one of the new guys I have spoken to are also voting for the contract. Without exception they have all said they will only be here until they find a new job and they want the money. So like it or not this is what we are up against.
So I will say it one more time for those that did not understand it the last time. Quit blaming Dan Wells, I believe the reason he did not want to sign off on this contract is because in today’s market it is a joke. If this POS is voted in, there will be no one to blame other than Kalitta pilots.
Give it six months for everyone to realize what a mistake voting solely on one section of the contract really means.
11-28-2016, 11:31 AM
#54
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: B747-400 CA
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by Code Red
The company played their cards correctly. Stalling and forcing us to deal with the NMB, knowing we won't get released. Anyone with a brain knows this contract is garbage. Unfortunately it will pass on the money alone.
Give it six months for everyone to realize what a mistake voting solely on one section of the contract really means.
Give it six months for everyone to realize what a mistake voting solely on one section of the contract really means.
11-28-2016, 11:56 AM
#55
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by Code Red
The company played their cards correctly. Stalling and forcing us to deal with the NMB, knowing we won't get released. Anyone with a brain knows this contract is garbage. Unfortunately it will pass on the money alone.
Give it six months for everyone to realize what a mistake voting solely on one section of the contract really means.
Give it six months for everyone to realize what a mistake voting solely on one section of the contract really means.
business class travel - its my feeling we will be doing a lot more international positioning in the future
Travel bank - kind of complicated to go into - but most will earn $$ into their bank to be used how ever the pilot wants - ie 1st class on domestic flight ect
Scope - K4 would be unable to purchase another air carrier like Atlas has done with Southern - Integration is mandatory
If K4 is sold the Contract and pilots go with sale - not so today
Vacation - currently they can offer for bid how ever many weeks they want - TA says they must publish all vacation accrued - meaning say there are 100 Captains each with 3 weeks - they have to publish 300 weeks for the next year - today they do about 60% - also sizable increase in vacation bank
Sick - You call in sick for 5 days - go to work fly 64 or above -you are charged 1 sick day - you will not loose line holder status
Scheduling - if off your line you will be given a status upon arrival at hotel
Resident Airport - the company wanted badly to get rid of home basing
NO junior man - a pilot can never be forced to work 1 day of overtime - ever
Training - totally different - no more training failures held over your head
Hotels - must be in downtown or city center locations - no more looking at the jet from your room
16 days - how many guys reading this wish they only had to work 16 days out of 31 - with no forced OT
Furlough mitigation - if pilots on furlough - no OT can be flown - if furloughed 4 months pay
hours of service - several improvements including, if they change your departure time - mandatory 10 hours off prior to new departure
these are just a few of the things that come to mind
YOU may consider these improvements garbage
many of us however do not
11-28-2016, 12:31 PM
#56
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Lockheed
just a couple things that come to mind
business class travel - its my feeling we will be doing a lot more international positioning in the future
Travel bank - kind of complicated to go into - but most will earn $$ into their bank to be used how ever the pilot wants - ie 1st class on domestic flight ect
Scope - K4 would be unable to purchase another air carrier like Atlas has done with Southern - Integration is mandatory
If K4 is sold the Contract and pilots go with sale - not so today
Vacation - currently they can offer for bid how ever many weeks they want - TA says they must publish all vacation accrued - meaning say there are 100 Captains each with 3 weeks - they have to publish 300 weeks for the next year - today they do about 60% - also sizable increase in vacation bank
Sick - You call in sick for 5 days - go to work fly 64 or above -you are charged 1 sick day - you will not loose line holder status
Scheduling - if off your line you will be given a status upon arrival at hotel
Resident Airport - the company wanted badly to get rid of home basing
NO junior man - a pilot can never be forced to work 1 day of overtime - ever
Training - totally different - no more training failures held over your head
Hotels - must be in downtown or city center locations - no more looking at the jet from your room
16 days - how many guys reading this wish they only had to work 16 days out of 31 - with no forced OT
Furlough mitigation - if pilots on furlough - no OT can be flown - if furloughed 4 months pay
hours of service - several improvements including, if they change your departure time - mandatory 10 hours off prior to new departure
these are just a few of the things that come to mind
YOU may consider these improvements garbage
many of us however do not
business class travel - its my feeling we will be doing a lot more international positioning in the future
Travel bank - kind of complicated to go into - but most will earn $$ into their bank to be used how ever the pilot wants - ie 1st class on domestic flight ect
Scope - K4 would be unable to purchase another air carrier like Atlas has done with Southern - Integration is mandatory
If K4 is sold the Contract and pilots go with sale - not so today
Vacation - currently they can offer for bid how ever many weeks they want - TA says they must publish all vacation accrued - meaning say there are 100 Captains each with 3 weeks - they have to publish 300 weeks for the next year - today they do about 60% - also sizable increase in vacation bank
Sick - You call in sick for 5 days - go to work fly 64 or above -you are charged 1 sick day - you will not loose line holder status
Scheduling - if off your line you will be given a status upon arrival at hotel
Resident Airport - the company wanted badly to get rid of home basing
NO junior man - a pilot can never be forced to work 1 day of overtime - ever
Training - totally different - no more training failures held over your head
Hotels - must be in downtown or city center locations - no more looking at the jet from your room
16 days - how many guys reading this wish they only had to work 16 days out of 31 - with no forced OT
Furlough mitigation - if pilots on furlough - no OT can be flown - if furloughed 4 months pay
hours of service - several improvements including, if they change your departure time - mandatory 10 hours off prior to new departure
these are just a few of the things that come to mind
YOU may consider these improvements garbage
many of us however do not
Mgmt bought everyone off with money. Maybe the next one will be better.
I'm not sorry for knowing we're all worth more.
11-28-2016, 12:39 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by Code Red
All these improvements you mention of I had at a regional carrier a decade ago. Just average pay and average work rules.
Mgmt bought everyone off with money. Maybe the next one will be better.
I'm not sorry for knowing we're all worth more.
Mgmt bought everyone off with money. Maybe the next one will be better.
I'm not sorry for knowing we're all worth more.
11-28-2016, 12:43 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2016
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Lockheed
so at your commuter they only charged you 1 sick day when took 5?
I'm not saying I wanna go back to that job what I'm trying to show is perspective.
11-28-2016, 12:53 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2011
Position: B747-400 CA
Posts: 373
Originally Posted by Code Red
We had a sick bank which accrued hours monthly. From which you could pay out at the end of the year.
I'm not saying I wanna go back to that job what I'm trying to show is perspective.
I'm not saying I wanna go back to that job what I'm trying to show is perspective.
11-28-2016, 12:53 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by Code Red
We had a sick bank which accrued hours monthly. From which you could pay out at the end of the year.
I'm not saying I wanna go back to that job what I'm trying to show is perspective.
I'm not saying I wanna go back to that job what I'm trying to show is perspective.
I also came from a far far better contract - but from where we are today with this contract negotiated by local 747 - and where we got to over 6 years of negotiations to me is not bad considering the environment that much of it was negotiated in
do wish it was better in a lot of ways - sure
understand many of these sections were TA'd years ago
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