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Old 05-13-2018, 08:06 AM   #11  
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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
I've never understood the appeal of wanting to live in some cold s-hole northern city where everything costs 3 times as much (at least), and there is very little privacy or ability to own land or move about on your own, or even have friendly contact with other human beings. I guess these people don't know any better.
I've never understood the appeal of living in the flat midwest or south where there isn't much public land and no mountains or decent outdoor opportunities. I guess I just like to get outside and explore and have fun too much. Oh well.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:31 PM   #12  
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I try to explain this reality to my parents as they think I am ungrateful for the 45k I now make as a regional pilot trying to live in Portland. They bought their house for 180k in 1997 when my dad only made about 50k. So since they were able to do it, I should be able to. I told my father to look up Zillow sometime and he accused me of calling him stupid lol.

Although not as expensive as Seattle, the housing here is soaring. Canít find much for less than 400k anymore, even some houses for 400k I wouldnít want to buy even if I could afford it. I wonít get the argument started on here that Californians and the tech industry are the reasons for the rapid rise in costs in the NW, but just stating that as an indicator that it will only get worse. California CoL is laughable, some places the houses donít sell for less than 1M. To me that is asinine, that is why the whole west coast in the next 10 years will be completely unlivable for honest hard working common folk. Not mad at Californians, I donít blame them for wanting to move somewhere cheaper and cash in on the house that their parents bought in the 70ís. That way they can offer cash well above any locals can afford in the NW. I donít blame the techies, they listened to their parents and got a degree that wasnít worthless. Instead of chasing a dream or getting a degree that they just had to persue for self satisfaction. Now they can afford the life that a hard working teacher, a mid level manager, small business owner or even a police officer will never even dream of in the coming years.

By 2025 for any city on the left coast, you will have to make well into the 6 figures to just have a shot at the middle class American lifestyle. Luckily, being a pilot is one of those jobs once you make it to major, if you donít lose your medical or get furloughed.. It still does have a higher salary than most, maybe not the rich lifestyle some dream of but the other job sectors aside from tech are just as stagnant.

Last edited by Fixnem2Flyinem; 05-14-2018 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:32 AM   #13  
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IMHO, a big perk of this job is spending time in those costly places at company expense, then going back to your modest, quiet home.
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Old 05-15-2018, 02:42 PM   #14  
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It has been this way for a long time. The only ones who made out were the few lucky enough to hit a hiring boom before 30. All of those guys were very well sponsored golden boys. people are naturally hopeful and tend to believe in things that don't exist. Why else would anyone work for a fraction of the top rates? In any capacity, aviation would be a career of last resort outside of a major airline. Pilots have some hope of career progression, everyone else in the industry is largely pigeon holed. Enough so to make working at a regional an incredibly dumb decision.
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They just don't pay enough for a long time. Surviving the lean years is more than the less wealthy kids would knowingly sign up for.
Life's not fair Bub. Suck it the Eff up and deal with it.

I didn't have jack, so I joined the Navy. No golden boy here but I worked hard in a low-rent public school, got up early to attend extra classes to get college pre-reqs knocked out while doing sports, then got up even earlier to go run before the sun came up... had to do that to push my sports performance where I thought it needed to be for scholarships.

Try looking forward instead of biatching all the time. If not for you, then the next generation. My kids are getting raised right, and will inherit millions. That makes me happy, even if I had some lean years and tough times along the way.

Even most of the privileged kids in aviation are pretty good people, not their fault they had it good.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:59 PM   #15  
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https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/27/sam-...00-a-year.html

200K is not enough. It takes $300,000 in most urban areas to support a family of 4 into the middle class. The middle class means two adults, two kids, a 2000 square foot home in the suburbs and two ten-year-old cars. No summer homes or maid service.
Ah, our resident failure is back to promote the sad song of his shortcomings, once again, and we see that he has brought his same, tired lies with him once more.

It's truly amazing that the vast majority of people in the US survive on an average income of just over 57,000 dollars. Is it just you that can't survive on less than three hundred thousand?

It's interesting that so many in aviation managed to succeed, whereas you did not.

It's also interesting that the average income in the United States is less than sixty grand, and yet you tout numbers suggesting it can't be less than three hundred thousand.

There's a common connection, here. Most people can do what you can't.

And you're here to cry about it again.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:58 PM   #16  
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Ah, our resident failure is back to promote the sad song of his shortcomings, once again, and we see that he has brought his same, tired lies with him once more.

It's truly amazing that the vast majority of people in the US survive on an average income of just over 57,000 dollars. Is it just you that can't survive on less than three hundred thousand?

It's interesting that so many in aviation managed to succeed, whereas you did not.

It's also interesting that the average income in the United States is less than sixty grand, and yet you tout numbers suggesting it can't be less than three hundred thousand.

There's a common connection, here. Most people can do what you can't.

And you're here to cry about it again.
Itís all about geography. In California, 57k almost gets you food stamps and definitely wonít ever afford you an opportunity to buy a house. 57k in Memphis, you can buy a decent 3br house and raise a few kids comfortably. Skyhighís example was in the Bay Area I believe.
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Old 05-15-2018, 05:52 PM   #17  
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Itís all about geography. In California, 57k almost gets you food stamps and definitely wonít ever afford you an opportunity to buy a house. 57k in Memphis, you can buy a decent 3br house and raise a few kids comfortably. Skyhighís example was in the Bay Area I believe.
Californians do tend to believe the world doesn't exist beyond their borders, that they're the trendsetters for society, and that theirs is the model of the rest of the country, despite the truth that the state is more like a foreign country.

Skyhigh has been floating the same like here for a number of years, and the truth is that the average US household is under sixty thousand dollars. Very few make the kind of money that skyhigh is touting: the notion that thee hundred thousand is necessary to day is an absolute lie.

You also need to understand that his was a short lived, failed career, for which is has been crying on and off for a long time. He quit the career because he feels it didn't allow him to live as he wished, in his words to live "as a king." He's not really living like a king now, either.

The industry if full of active aviators making a living and pursuing their chosen vocation. Skyhigh would have us believe that divorce is inevitable, that all pilots live miserable lives in one bedroom apartments, starving, without any semblance of a life. He's stated as much on many occasions on this website.

The notion that a pilot must be making three hundred thousand dollars a year to live a basic middle class existence is a lie, and is stupidity. It's five times the national income.

That said, I can have had made two hundred thousand flying single engine airplanes, let alone other equipment. At the early stages of one's career, income may not be worth that kind of money, but with the proper qualifications and experience, career progression tends toward better paying jobs, and one can expect not only a good living and acceptable lifestyle.

Regional pilots today are starting off above the national average income, which is a very significant improvement over what once was. It only goes up from there.
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:14 PM   #18  
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Regional pilots today are starting off above the national average income
Hah, wut?

48,642.15 is the 2016 National Average Wage according to the Department of Social Security. https://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html

Most regionals do not pay that on first year pay, or even on 3rd year pay. I think Endeavor might be the only one that exceeds that mark at year 3. Pretty unacceptable considering the cost of education and training for this career.

1st year pay at Republic: $40,500
3rd year pay at Republic: $45,900

1st year pay at Endeavor: $45,000
3rd year pay at Endeavor: $54,000

1st year pay at SkyWest: $34,656
3rd year pay at SkyWest: $37,392-$40,128 (depends on equipment)

1st year pay at Mesa: $32,400
3rd year pay at Mesa: $34,200
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Old 05-15-2018, 06:29 PM   #19  
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The amazing thing is those current pat scales are, inflation adjusted, exactly what I started out at in 1980 flying a Citation and 5 years later at Eastern as a F/E. Stop beotching, you’re no worse off than your father was back in the day. No, you won’t own a house, have a retirement plan financed TODAY, but give it 30+ years and you will just like I did. And I did it flying military and civilian, no 300k airline jobs. Today is, bar none, the best period to be a pilot in 60 years.


GF
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Old 05-15-2018, 07:01 PM   #20  
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200K is not enough. It takes $300,000 in most urban areas to support a family of 4 into the middle class. The middle class means two adults, two kids, a 2000 square foot home in the suburbs and two ten-year-old cars. No summer homes or maid service.
Someone is smoking some serious crack.

If you can't live on $300k then you have a serious problem, or you need to move to a place you can afford.
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