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Old 05-15-2018, 09:12 PM   #21  
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I notice that High doesn’t mention what he’s making? What does he do anyway? I heard organic beef farmer, property manager? Just sayin’ high is full of problems and short on solutions.
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Old 05-16-2018, 07:56 AM   #22  
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Originally Posted by galaxy flyer View Post
The amazing thing is those current pat scales are, inflation adjusted, exactly what I started out at in 1980 flying a Citation and 5 years later at Eastern as a F/E. Stop beotching, you’re no worse off than your father was back in the day. No, you won’t own a house, have a retirement plan financed TODAY, but give it 30+ years and you will just like I did. And I did it flying military and civilian, no 300k airline jobs. Today is, bar none, the best period to be a pilot in 60 years.


GF
What about flight training costs? Flight training is significantly more expensive today than it was in 1980, even considering inflation. The education cost has skyrocketed, rents in most cities have skyrocketed, and yet the starting wage is the same and still below respectable.
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Old 05-16-2018, 08:03 AM   #23  
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Let's have a look, from the numbers on this same site...

First year first officer at Republic:

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...public_airline

Quote:
First Officer Averages (Year 1): $45,000 (wages/base compensation) + $6,100 (per diem) + $17,500 (signing bonus) + $6,200 (benefits) = $74,800
So...above national average for income, and the numbers above are just entry level.

Gojet has 26,000 to 30,000 dollar bonuses.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...gojet_airlines

Quote:
$26,000 1 st year New-Hire First Officer Bonus
$15,000 1 st year New-Hire Direct Entry Captain Bonus
$30,000 sign on bonus for new hire direct entry captains hired on or after 4/10/2018 paid out in 10k increments: After IOE completion at 6 months on property, after 12 months on property
$5,000 Air Carrier Experience Match Bonus
Experience Match also allows current & qualified pilots from any scheduled US or international air carrier to carry over longevity at 1:1 rate and get up to 6 months of early seniority.
$10,000 Referral Bonus for current GoJet pilots.
Open time paid at 150%.
Premium pay has been at 150 – 200 %.
Horizon...

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...al/horizon_air

Quote:
New hire bonus ($25,000 for Q400 pilots, $20,000 for E175 pilots)
They, like many others, are offering other bonus packages, such as twenty five grand for rotor pilots transitioning to fixed wing, as well as recruitment bonuses for referring a friend, etc.

No, these pilots are not making less than the national average, and it's well to remember that regionals are entry level jobs. It only goes up from there.

Starting wages are far, far better than what they were.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Airhoss View Post
I notice that High doesn’t mention what he’s making? What does he do anyway? I heard organic beef farmer, property manager? Just sayin’ high is full of problems and short on solutions.
No need. He's living like a king (who came from a failed career attempt), and kings, much like crass dishonest presidents, don't need to reveal their income. It's just assumed.

Besides, he owns a Cessna 150. He must be making at least 300,000, right?

Personal worth is irrelevant if all one does is return to attack the industry in which one couldn't make a go of it. He's not actually saying that he's making these wages...just that the rest of us never could.
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Old 05-16-2018, 12:26 PM   #24  
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Originally Posted by SonicFlyer View Post
If you can't raise a family on $100k, then you are living in the wrong place.
Not everybody can live in Podunk, KS.

Some have family and lives elsewhere. Others just couldn't stand the small town, and left for a reason.

Major metro area, you need 200K for the stereo-typical upper middle class life. That includes house with a yard (and no burglar bars), vacations, kid's college, and retirement at age 65. Also food costs more than you might think... assuming real food, not the packaged/processed crap at your chain grocery (but that's probably your only choice in Podunk Falls).
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:14 PM   #25  
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Not everybody can live in Podunk, KS.
One can live in almost any major metropolitan area in the country comfortably on $100k... this excludes s-holes such as NY, Bos, DC, LA, Sea, SFO, Chicago.

Practically anywhere else in the country, $100k does just fine.

$100k doesn't force you to live in a small town.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post

Major metro area, you need 200K for the stereo-typical upper middle class life. That includes house with a yard (and no burglar bars), vacations, kid's college, and retirement at age 65.
LOL no it really doesn't. You must be really bad at math.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:16 PM   #26  
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One can live in almost any major metropolitan area in the country comfortably on $100k... this excludes s-holes such as NY, Bos, DC, LA, Sea, SFO, Chicago.
That's essentially every major airline domicile in the country.
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:23 PM   #27  
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Originally Posted by JohnBurke View Post
Let's have a look, from the numbers on this same site...

First year first officer at Republic:

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...public_airline



So...above national average for income, and the numbers above are just entry level.

Gojet has 26,000 to 30,000 dollar bonuses.

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...gojet_airlines



Horizon...

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/...al/horizon_air



They, like many others, are offering other bonus packages, such as twenty five grand for rotor pilots transitioning to fixed wing, as well as recruitment bonuses for referring a friend, etc.

No, these pilots are not making less than the national average, and it's well to remember that regionals are entry level jobs. It only goes up from there.

Starting wages are far, far better than what they were.



No need. He's living like a king (who came from a failed career attempt), and kings, much like crass dishonest presidents, don't need to reveal their income. It's just assumed.

Besides, he owns a Cessna 150. He must be making at least 300,000, right?

Personal worth is irrelevant if all one does is return to attack the industry in which one couldn't make a go of it. He's not actually saying that he's making these wages...just that the rest of us never could.
Error 1:

Per diem is not compensation, and yet you are counting that.

Error 2:

Many of those numbers are manipulated figures by recruiting departments and not minimum guarantee. Minimum guarantee is the only thing that you can build a responsible budget around in this industry. All of my numbers are at minimum guarantee, as that's what most pilots make first year unless they pick up flying on their days off.

Error 3:

Signing bonuses are not reliable compensation, many of them are conditional upon the pilot staying there for several years. And compensation actually goes down significantly starting at year 2 if you do factor in the signing bonus.

Also, many of the signing bonuses have catch-22s that state something like 1/2 of this bonus will be paid out at the 24-month employment anniversary if the pilot is not "upgrade eligible" and then they won't pay the pilot that second 1/2 of the bonus, because they have the 1000sic 121 and are by definition "eligible" even if they have the bid in for upgrade but simply don't have the seniority to be awarded it yet.

You are obviously very clueless and detached from the reality of FO compensation at regional airlines. It's all smoke, mirrors, lies, and misdirection to get people in the door before they get a chance to understand the fine print.

Error 4:

what is the relevance rotor bonuses for the mil guys? That's not relevant to the issue that the civilian guys are shelling out close to $50-$100k+ for training and education these days and still getting hosed and put second in line to the mil guys, which is what is causing the pilot shortage at the regional level.... Why pay so much money on training and education when one can go to a 3-6 month "coding camp" straight out of highschool and make $100k+/year without the debt?


The whole "I was able to do it at $10-$20k/year when gas was less than a buck a gallon, flight training was $5/hr, and rent was $200/month, so you should be able to do it too" argument is a fallacy at best.
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Old 05-17-2018, 05:46 PM   #28  
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That's essentially every major airline domicile in the country.
Wrong. Dallas, Houston, Denver, Atlanta, CVG, MSP, DTW, PHX, etc all have affordable suburbs.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:53 PM   #29  
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Wrong. Dallas, Houston, Denver, Atlanta, CVG, MSP, DTW, PHX, etc all have affordable suburbs.
Mind pointing me towards an affordable suburb in Denver where I could live without fear of being shot or robbed, and still make a 120 minute call-out?

Not familiar with the housing market in many of those other cities, but FO and even Captain Salary at a regional airline just doesn't pay the bills in Denver unless you're single and don't plan on having kids until your late 40s.
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Old 05-18-2018, 06:32 AM   #30  
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Mind pointing me towards an affordable suburb in Denver where I could live without fear of being shot or robbed, and still make a 120 minute call-out?

Not familiar with the housing market in many of those other cities, but FO and even Captain Salary at a regional airline just doesn't pay the bills in Denver unless you're single and don't plan on having kids until your late 40s.
I was referring to the ignorant comment above about how one has to make $300k just to have a middle class lifestyle LOL
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