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From one who has done it. (long)

Old 10-22-2008, 09:46 AM
  #1  
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Wink From one who has done it. (long)

I have been lurking here for a while and after seeing the many responses and beliefs written I figured to give one man's perspective.

I would never begrudge anyone from following their dreams. Life is all about dreams and you will never know how things will work out until you try. As some famous person said, "it is better to have tried and not succeed than to not try at all".

To all you younger people I have seen on this forum and another with relatively low flight time in the civilian world that are frustrated in the current downturn, you haven''t given it an honest shot. When I got out of the buisiness 18 years ago a regional wouldn't look at your resume twice with the low flight times required now. It seems many people these days would like to start at the top in many careers. Maybe it is the glossy adds displaying a 1500 hour 747 FO. I'd bet that guy had connections of some sort, not that it's a bad thing and anyone would jump on it. The world's oldest profession is the only place someone starts at the top and works their way down. If it is your dream, give it an honest shot.

A few on this board come on pretty strong against a career in aviation but if they didn't have valid points I'm sure they would be edited as trolls.

Now that you have given it an honest try and do find it isn't for you here are the experiences of some people I know along with myself.

One is a former RJ captain that was furloughed about a year and a half ago. Now he is an FO on a Falcon for Netjets. Last I talked to him he expected to be a captain in 2-3 years. When asked if it bothered him to go from capt. to FO his reply was "no". He has stuck with it so far but says I'm better off where I'm at.

Next is an extremely motivated guy that started out as an air traffic controller in the Navy. After being honorably discharged he took up a flying career which progressed through the ranks and ended up flying corporate jets for a prominant company. At some point he had enough and used his G.I. bill to attend med school. He now has two specialties along with a fellowship at Mayo Clinic in MN. He is in such demand that when he signs a three year contract another hospital will buy it out before his time is up. Of course flying never leaves one's blood so he collects ratings for fun. His must take up 6 pieces of plastic which include type ratings and a commercial ballon ticket.

Now for yours truely. At 17 years old I went to the local flight school for a plane ride. I had never been airborne but loved it so much that lessons started imediatly and were paid for by myself from money earned as a stockboy in the grocery store. My instructor was a retired Lt. Col. from the AF. Talk about luck! The first jet he flew was a T-33 in the early 50's. Having been a quiet kid (my how things change) I never said much. When he was explaining ground reference maneuvers I told him "yeah, I've been reading Kershner's manual". He says "that explains it. I'm telling you and you act like you know what I'm talking about. Keep up the reading". It took a few months for me to find out he called my parents asking if it was o.k. to teach me since I wasn't 18.

When I was ready for my instrument ticket, and for you youngsters the total time required was higher than it is now, he didn't want to instruct anymore but said "I'm going to teach you". I sure would like to thank him but he has probably reached the eternal flight level.

I did the usual advancement starting as a CFI. That was enjoyable with the good students but some would never make it no matter how any instructor would try. Of course the flight schools would never allow you to tell them they wouldn't make it because they wanted the money. Next there was the skydivers and banner towing which happened to be the most fun job I ever had. Didn't make any money but got flight time and had fun.

Then came night freight in T210's. It was a blast but back in those days (late 80's) times were probably as tough as they are now. When telling the Netjets FO from above who the company I worked for was his response was, "your still alive"? They had a reputation for killing pilots. If a pilot complained about a maintenance issue the boss would tell them to take a different aircraft. The defective aircraft was given to an unsuspecting pilot that didn't have a clue. Needless to say the FAA invaded the ramp one night and revoked the op. cert. I worked for them while they used someone else's cert.

On to check hauling in Aztecs it was. It too was fun as hell. Sure there was the occasional ice and thunderstorms but that didn't bother me as much as the dishonesty of the company. If an aircraft has just underwent a 100hr inspection and a wheel bearing siezes up due to no grease when taxing out there is pencil wrenching going on.

Both of those companies are long gone.

By the time I had an interview with AMR Eagle (1990) I had enough. After flying to Dallas there were three interviews on the same day. The first was a woman who asked some general questions and how I got into flying. I related the story above and she seemed genuinely interested. The last thing she asked is if there was anything else I wanted to add to which I replied "if you are flying anything that shouldn't be in the air, don't hire me". HEHEHE I'm sure that is the reason for the "no thanks" letter. The line captain going over charts and regs along with the Citation sim instructor both told me that my performance was excellent.

So how did I leave aviation? I was collecting unemployment and answered a brief add in the newspaper. Unknown to me at the time it was placed by a large gas and electric utility in my area that required "2 years of technical training". Upon my initial phone call I was asked what I had been doing. When the woman heard "flying freight" she replied "that's technical enough" so an an in-person interview was arranged. During the interview I was asked "if we hire you, how do we know you won't leave to fly again"? Being a wise ass that figured the game was over I said "if you hire me how do I know you won't lay me of"? Well, I've been with the company for over 17 years now at a rate of pay more than many corporate turbine captains that I aspired to be.

Luck and timing play a part in anything one does along with work ethic. If I tried getting into my current career now it wouldn't happen. The company does not use the apprenticeship but hire qualified people off the street. Who knows if that will change in the future since qualified people with knowledge of hydraulics is more difficult.

Changing careers into the blue collar world was one of the most difficult things I have done but has also been rewarding. During my first weeks as an apprentice I almost walked but am glad I didn't. The QOL is great, there is an overfunded pension plan I can personally choose to take at 57 and 1/2, great medical, dental, vision, and a non-matching 401(k). The opportunity is there to bid to another department (lineman) where the guys regularly make $150,000 to $210,000 per annum with overtime which is more than most in management with several degrees. That ticks them off by the way. Not bad for high school graduates but many people don't want to get their fingies dirty. That along with the fact people can't pass random drug tests.

I haven't flown in some time as PIC but as a pax lately in airlines and rides which include the EAA's B-17. Like I said, flying never leaves one's blood so I'm working on the ATP. I'll never use it but will also be a rating collector for fun.

If you have given aviation an honest try and decide to leave there are many possibilities if one keeps an open mind.

Regards,
Former flyer
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:15 AM
  #2  
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Originally Posted by BTDT View Post
I have been lurking here for a while and after seeing the many responses and beliefs written I figured to give one man's perspective.

I would never begrudge anyone from following their dreams. Life is all about dreams and you will never know how things will work out until you try. As some famous person said, "it is better to have tried and not succeed than to not try at all".

To all you younger people I have seen on this forum and another with relatively low flight time in the civilian world that are frustrated in the current downturn, you haven''t given it an honest shot. When I got out of the buisiness 18 years ago a regional wouldn't look at your resume twice with the low flight times required now. It seems many people these days would like to start at the top in many careers. Maybe it is the glossy adds displaying a 1500 hour 747 FO. I'd bet that guy had connections of some sort, not that it's a bad thing and anyone would jump on it. The world's oldest profession is the only place someone starts at the top and works their way down. If it is your dream, give it an honest shot.

A few on this board come on pretty strong against a career in aviation but if they didn't have valid points I'm sure they would be edited as trolls.

Now that you have given it an honest try and do find it isn't for you here are the experiences of some people I know along with myself.

One is a former RJ captain that was furloughed about a year and a half ago. Now he is an FO on a Falcon for Netjets. Last I talked to him he expected to be a captain in 2-3 years. When asked if it bothered him to go from capt. to FO his reply was "no". He has stuck with it so far but says I'm better off where I'm at.

Next is an extremely motivated guy that started out as an air traffic controller in the Navy. After being honorably discharged he took up a flying career which progressed through the ranks and ended up flying corporate jets for a prominant company. At some point he had enough and used his G.I. bill to attend med school. He now has two specialties along with a fellowship at Mayo Clinic in MN. He is in such demand that when he signs a three year contract another hospital will buy it out before his time is up. Of course flying never leaves one's blood so he collects ratings for fun. His must take up 6 pieces of plastic which include type ratings and a commercial ballon ticket.

Now for yours truely. At 17 years old I went to the local flight school for a plane ride. I had never been airborne but loved it so much that lessons started imediatly and were paid for by myself from money earned as a stockboy in the grocery store. My instructor was a retired Lt. Col. from the AF. Talk about luck! The first jet he flew was a T-33 in the early 50's. Having been a quiet kid (my how things change) I never said much. When he was explaining ground reference maneuvers I told him "yeah, I've been reading Kershner's manual". He says "that explains it. I'm telling you and you act like you know what I'm talking about. Keep up the reading". It took a few months for me to find out he called my parents asking if it was o.k. to teach me since I wasn't 18.

When I was ready for my instrument ticket, and for you youngsters the total time required was higher than it is now, he didn't want to instruct anymore but said "I'm going to teach you". I sure would like to thank him but he has probably reached the eternal flight level.

I did the usual advancement starting as a CFI. That was enjoyable with the good students but some would never make it no matter how any instructor would try. Of course the flight schools would never allow you to tell them they wouldn't make it because they wanted the money. Next there was the skydivers and banner towing which happened to be the most fun job I ever had. Didn't make any money but got flight time and had fun.

Then came night freight in T210's. It was a blast but back in those days (late 80's) times were probably as tough as they are now. When telling the Netjets FO from above who the company I worked for was his response was, "your still alive"? They had a reputation for killing pilots. If a pilot complained about a maintenance issue the boss would tell them to take a different aircraft. The defective aircraft was given to an unsuspecting pilot that didn't have a clue. Needless to say the FAA invaded the ramp one night and revoked the op. cert. I worked for them while they used someone else's cert.

On to check hauling in Aztecs it was. It too was fun as hell. Sure there was the occasional ice and thunderstorms but that didn't bother me as much as the dishonesty of the company. If an aircraft has just underwent a 100hr inspection and a wheel bearing siezes up due to no grease when taxing out there is pencil wrenching going on.

Both of those companies are long gone.

By the time I had an interview with AMR Eagle (1990) I had enough. After flying to Dallas there were three interviews on the same day. The first was a woman who asked some general questions and how I got into flying. I related the story above and she seemed genuinely interested. The last thing she asked is if there was anything else I wanted to add to which I replied "if you are flying anything that shouldn't be in the air, don't hire me". HEHEHE I'm sure that is the reason for the "no thanks" letter. The line captain going over charts and regs along with the Citation sim instructor both told me that my performance was excellent.

So how did I leave aviation? I was collecting unemployment and answered a brief add in the newspaper. Unknown to me at the time it was placed by a large gas and electric utility in my area that required "2 years of technical training". Upon my initial phone call I was asked what I had been doing. When the woman heard "flying freight" she replied "that's technical enough" so an an in-person interview was arranged. During the interview I was asked "if we hire you, how do we know you won't leave to fly again"? Being a wise ass that figured the game was over I said "if you hire me how do I know you won't lay me of"? Well, I've been with the company for over 17 years now at a rate of pay more than many corporate turbine captains that I aspired to be.

Luck and timing play a part in anything one does along with work ethic. If I tried getting into my current career now it wouldn't happen. The company does not use the apprenticeship but hire qualified people off the street. Who knows if that will change in the future since qualified people with knowledge of hydraulics is more difficult.

Changing careers into the blue collar world was one of the most difficult things I have done but has also been rewarding. During my first weeks as an apprentice I almost walked but am glad I didn't. The QOL is great, there is an overfunded pension plan I can personally choose to take at 57 and 1/2, great medical, dental, vision, and a non-matching 401(k). The opportunity is there to bid to another department (lineman) where the guys regularly make $150,000 to $210,000 per annum with overtime which is more than most in management with several degrees. That ticks them off by the way. Not bad for high school graduates but many people don't want to get their fingies dirty. That along with the fact people can't pass random drug tests.

I haven't flown in some time as PIC but as a pax lately in airlines and rides which include the EAA's B-17. Like I said, flying never leaves one's blood so I'm working on the ATP. I'll never use it but will also be a rating collector for fun.

If you have given aviation an honest try and decide to leave there are many possibilities if one keeps an open mind.

Regards,
Former flyer

Hello BTDT, and welcome to the forum.

Thank you for sharing your story, and coming from a former EGL Captain, that was your luckiest day not getting hired there.

Funny you mentioned buyouts for your M.D. friend. I recieved an offer to buy out my current contract, and the bonus they are offering would pay for a brand new Pitts S2C. (yea, i'm thinking it over).
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Old 10-22-2008, 10:33 AM
  #3  
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"if you are flying anything that shouldn't be in the air, don't hire me". HEHEHE I'm sure that is the reason for the "no thanks" letter."

I think I didn't get hired at Horizon once because I mentioned Alaska Air in my future career goals. HAHA. It's not hard to slip up at an interview and get taken the wrong way.
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