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Old 02-22-2009, 08:30 AM   #11  
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Default Trucking

Where I live there are a few trucking companies that specialize in driving local agricultural products to port two hours drive away. If they push it they can make two round trips a day. It makes for a ten hour day but that isn't so bad. I have always heard that they did well but did not know what that meant.

I just processed an application for a guy who has one of those trucking jobs and he makes 86K per year. Not bad for a smoking, drinking, rottweiler owning, soon to be divorced high school drop out.

He told me that he pulls out for he yard at 5:00am and is done usually by 3 to 5:00PM. He gets paid by the trip. $200 per round trip. He told me that some drivers who own their trucks can make more. He spends his day listening to satellite radio and commenting to his dog about the traffic.

I have a friend who has been bugging me to get his pilots license. Till now I have been trying to dissuade him. He owns an excavation company and a few big trucks. I been thinking that maybe I should offer to trade him flight training for a CDL license.

Skyhigh
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Old 02-22-2009, 08:50 AM   #12  
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Default Frustrating

During my time at a regional I specifically remember two guys who left flying the line to pursue other jobs outside of aviation. One left flying to become a long haul trucker and the other left to drive a septic tank pump truck.

Recently at a aviation event I ran into the septic tank guy. He now owns the company and couldn't be happier with his new profession. He owns a secure recession proof business, is home every night and makes a very good living.

It is highly frustrating to have invested so much into aviation only to be worth less than a short haul trucker who probably has less than 4 weeks invested into their career, however it is a common story. I don't know how the trucker is doing. Hopefully he is happy.

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Old 02-22-2009, 08:51 AM   #13  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
Pilots are not blue collar workers.
Cheers.
I hate to say it but that's where the industry is headed in the current economic environment. The piloting profession may well become a "blue collar" industry, albeit the higher end of the strata, given the realities of today's economy. I can see airline pilots becoming nothing more than glorified bus drivers (no offense to Greyhound/Trailways employees). It's just a fact of life. It's simply supply and demand economics.

Glad to be flying for fun now !

G"Day Mates
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:17 PM   #14  
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Cubdriver,

I'm really enjoying your posts in this thread, however I disagree with you on one point:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
Pilots are not blue collar workers.
When I compare my job to "traditional" blue collar work, I find many similarities: long, unusual hours often with minimum rest between "shifts", exposure to adverse conditions (weather, fuel, chemicals), working holidays is required except for the most senior members of the work group (even my plumber and dry cleaner take Christmas off), and a larger supply of qualified labor than seats needing to be filled.

Like traditional blue collar roles, our industry generally has relied on labor unions to improve and maintain benefits and pay, although it seems to me recent efforts have had mild, if any, success. Even Boeing machinists made gains this year. With no college degree or formal training, a machinist likely makes more and has better benefits than a second year regional FO. (Less flight benefits I suppose, but who has the money and time to use them?)
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Old 02-22-2009, 12:24 PM   #15  
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Default Blue collar

SO if Pilots are not blue collar workers because they do not make as much as union blue collar guys and they clearly are not traditional white collar guys in respect to wages, respect and quality of life then what are pilots? T-shirt collar workers?

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Old 02-22-2009, 01:45 PM   #16  
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SO if Pilots are not blue collar workers because they do not make as much as union blue collar guys and they clearly are not traditional white collar guys in respect to wages, respect and quality of life then what are pilots? T-shirt collar workers?
LOL! Time to coin a new labor term...
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:24 PM   #17  
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[quote=Cubdriver;564429]If you average out what you put in in terms of time from day one in the business and do not jump to the 6 month period you did well after 6 years of slavery you will find you made something like $10 an hour for your work as a truck driver. You may be talking about some final position you had for 6 months where you made better, but I was in the business for over ten years and I know what people made in the industry and I did or knew about everything including the "gravy" jobs you speak of.

I worked for big companies, small ones, drove dump trucks, reefers, flat beds, daycabs, drop decks, did long haul, short haul local, moved rail containers, drove brand new equipment, drove junk, owned trucks, ran long haul and worked day jobs, did local delivery, on and on and I never saw more than about $10 an hour. There are a few jobs in trucking where the hourly rate is not bad, but as you admit it is impossible to get them with less than a few years experience. Jobs like high-seniority LTL routes and those you describe are few and far between and very hard to get. It's just like being the top guy at FedEx as a pilot. These days if you even get paid $15 an hour you are above average. In fact, if you are in the TOP TEN PERCENT of truck drivers in terms of wages you will make about $50,000 a year for a 2,000 hour work year and it goes DOWNWARDS from there."

I got my cdl in one month, drove over the road for three months and then was hired to do local deliveries, home every night with hourly pay of 18/hr before overtime. Also, it is a union job and to try to get guys not to take the allowed break time, you can get paid by how much you deliver and how quickly. On average I make 22-23/ hr before overtime. There is zero down time, I get paid the entire time I am working and am home every night. I know three or four other young guys like myself who went to school at the same place went over the road for a few months and then got hired on. You can get hired immediately out of school if you are confident enough in your driving, but it takes time to get really good at backing and driving in city traffic. The top earning guys make over 80k, but they really have to work for it. Lots of super early mornings and long days of hard work. It is pretty easy to make 50k. If you were in the industry ten years and couldn't find a better job that is on you, it is pretty easy to find decent work with a cdl if you have the desire and work ethic.
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Old 02-22-2009, 02:45 PM   #18  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by welle036 View Post

I got my cdl in one month, drove over the road for three months and then was hired to do local deliveries, home every night with hourly pay of 18/hr before overtime. Lots of super early mornings and long days of hard work. It is pretty easy to make 50k. If you were in the industry ten years and couldn't find a better job that is on you, it is pretty easy to find decent work with a cdl if you have the desire and work ethic.
Good counterpoint to my my experience, I don't doubt it. Still takes a good break to get onboard at one of the union companies, and then you're pretty locked into 8-hr days, 5 days a week (or more), two weeks of vacation a year. Nothing to complain about, but one of the benefits of long-haul driving and professional pilot tends to be the possibility of more than the occasional long weekend away from the office.

At the end of the day, if you work hard and do a good job, someone's bound to notice. And then they're going to try and get you to do it again, only for less money....
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Old 02-22-2009, 03:47 PM   #19  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMWRIGHT View Post
2 years of training and 70k later one becomes a "pilot" , unemployed and
even if one is lucky to land an FO job it starts at 18k per year... In 3 weeks and 3k one can get a CDL class A. Truck drivers start at 50k and owner/operators can make 100k per year. You'd need to invest about 8 years in aviation to make 60k. (2 years school, 2 years cfi, 4 years fo)

Just my 2 cents
Unless you can land a local job I would hold off on that idea. Freight is generally very slow now and companies are falling like dominoes.

However as we all know you generally need one year experience to land a local job. The bottom feeder carriers like CR England, Werner, Swift that will hire you straight from CDL school are simply not even worth your time. You'll be lucky to make $30 grand there not $50K. You will live out of a shoebox at least two weeks at a time and be home for only 2 days.

I personally got very lucky and landed a regional slip seat driving job that brings in $800+ a week, not bad for being out just 2/3 days a week.


CubDriver is right, 80% of truck drivers are just down right nasty. When you walk across a truck stop parking lot you are treated to the stench of urine. On interstate on/off ramps you will count at least 5 urine jugs strewn across. When was the last time you heard of pilots peeing in a water gallon in the cockpit?


I am in the opposite dilema as you. I am sersiously considering starting my PPL training with the eventual hope of obtaining ATP certification.
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Old 02-22-2009, 07:59 PM   #20  
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Default In flight relief

Quote:
Originally Posted by New B View Post
Unless you can land a local job I would hold off on that idea. Freight is generally very slow now and companies are falling like dominoes.

However as we all know you generally need one year experience to land a local job. The bottom feeder carriers like CR England, Werner, Swift that will hire you straight from CDL school are simply not even worth your time. You'll be lucky to make $30 grand there not $50K. You will live out of a shoebox at least two weeks at a time and be home for only 2 days.

I personally got very lucky and landed a regional slip seat driving job that brings in $800+ a week, not bad for being out just 2/3 days a week.


CubDriver is right, 80% of truck drivers are just down right nasty. When you walk across a truck stop parking lot you are treated to the stench of urine. On interstate on/off ramps you will count at least 5 urine jugs strewn across. When was the last time you heard of pilots peeing in a water gallon in the cockpit?


I am in the opposite dilema as you. I am sersiously considering starting my PPL training with the eventual hope of obtaining ATP certification.
Pilots use jugs too. Gatorade bottles work the best. I knew one guy who would use air sick bags and threw them out the little side window. The problem was that it was in a high wing twin. The prop always got the bag and would then cover the plane with its exploding contents.

If you think that flying will be much different then trucking is would think again.

Skyhigh
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