Alighted

I've been in this industry for over 16 years, so it's not surprising, but still fairly ironic that this is my debut thread...

I'm interested to hear from other (former?) major airline pilots out there that have returned to school to pursue a J.D. / L.L.M., continued on to pass the bar, and currently work in the legal profession -- either as an in-house, or private practice attorney.

Are you happy with your decision to leave the flight deck? Was the financial transition (including any law school student loans) positive / negative or neutral? Would you ever consider leaving law to return to flying the line?

McCroskey

I met someone who left aviation to start a career in a legal department. He then later passed the bar exam and it is now an attorney for a small firm. From what I remember, he did said that the transition from flying to attorney took time but that it was all worth it. He also said that he still flies on his spare time but wouldn't go back to fly the line full time.

ufgatorpilot

I'm trying to go from lawyer to pilot, if that tells you anything...

Nearly all the lawyers I know absolutely hate their jobs. Unfortunately, most are burdened by student loans, car payments, mortgage payments, etc. and simply can't afford to get out of the profession. If you do decide to go to law school, do not go to a private law school! It's not worth all that money IMO.

USMCFLYR

Sounds familiar with what you learn on this forum all the time huh? So Gator - what type of law are you in and are you finding that your lawyer friends that are looking for work finding it tough going too?

USMCFLYR

greaper007

I'd love to go to law school. My grandfather was an attorney and my Dad's backup was to be an attorney. He got a stint flying F-14's and I got Colgan.... Unfortunately I've already spent 40,000 on flight school and I don't think I can justify another 40,000 for law school. That and law seems to be as blotted as a profession as aviation, if not more.

I took a few pre-law classes during college. Every professor seemed to have a story that echoed almost exactly the stories of 121 folks. Long hours, low pay (or too many hours to enjoy the high pay), inability to pay back loans with a job you want. Every one of them said to only go into law if you're the kind of person that is just absolutely fascinated by the law. Someone that spent their summers watching Perry Mason.

As I said above, I think that I might enjoy law. It just seems like a completely bloated field and I'd hate to make the same mistake again.

Alighted

I've read this opinion in quite a few places...what is that you think makes nearly all the lawyers you know hate their jobs? Do you hate yours? What's good about it? What's bad about it?

P.S. I almost can't afford to stay IN the airline biz, and I have invested as much and more than law school tuition to be an airline pilot. The cost / benefit analysis of law school is a point well taken, and one that will definitely be done and will definitely play a role in which institution is selected should I ultimately decide to go.

LifeNtheFstLne

You will find ZERO sympathy on this website. Take your six-figure salary and cry in your Wheaties elsewhere.

bryris

The problem here is that were dealing with an element of human nature. The grass is greener. We are all searching for something that makes us happy. It doesn't matter if you are sitting in a jet, or sitting at a desk, whatever is causing unhappiness lies inside of our heads.

I've seen happy pilots, happy lawyers, and happy garbage men and unhappy ones too.

The answer must lie somewhere else...

forumname

Sounds like a lot of pilots I know.

ufgatorpilot

I do corporate law - mostly general corporate law, mergers and acquisitions, and securities laws. It has been pretty slow this year and last year. Of course, I don't wish this economy on anyone, but if the economy was going to go down the tank, it happened at a great time for me b/c I have had more time to concentrate on getting pilot ratings. I would never have had the time to accomplish so many of my flying goals if things were as busy as they were in 2007.

I have known a few people to get laid off.... They were all able to find other employment though so maybe the lawyer market isn't all that bad. I'd have a hard time finding another corporate law job right now, but there are plenty of opportunities in bankruptcy and commercial litigation at the moment.

Yes, as a general rule, I hate my job. But it depends on the day - sometimes I hate it more, sometimes I hate it less. I will say though, I loved law school. I really did enjoy it and learned a lot. I think law school was the best three years of my life.

I don't even know where to begin...

I'll start with what's good about it, since that's a relatively short list.
(1) I'm at a big firm so the pay is good, though I'm making 20% less than I was making last year. They stopped the 401k match this year too. And what I pay each month for health insurance doubled this year. It all kind of makes me feel like a seasoned airline pilot.
(2) I like that though we have billable hours, we don't have to "clock in" and "clock out." So if I have to go to the dentist or whatever, I make the earliest appointment of the morning and then show up to work afterwards. Yes, when you aren't in the airline industry where you might get a random Thursday off, you have to squeeze annoying doctor appointments into your work week.
(3) For the most part, I like the people that I work with so I'm very lucky. If you work at a place where you don't like the people, you will be miserable. Unlike the airlines, you don't switch crews every trip so if you work with people you don't like, you are stuck with them until you find a new job or they find a new job....

What I don't like about the job... I'll try to just focus on the big ones.
(1) I think my number one complaint is that my job does not does not end at a certain time. I have to cancel dinner plans all the time because something comes up at work late in the afternoon that needs to get done. So I don't have as much control over my schedule as I would like. Also, when things are busy, I frequently work on the weekends. My mergers and acquisitions practice gets very busy in November/December b/c clients try to get their deals done before year end. That means I work Christmas Eve and Christmas nearly every year. Since I'm salaried, I don't get overtime for any of this.
(2) The billable hour stinks. Just trust me on that one.
(3) In the offer letter they gave me when I took my job, it said that I got 4 weeks of vacation. Now, no one really keeps track of how many days I'm gone, including myself. However, if I ever actually tried to take 4 weeks of vacation, there is NO WAY I could ever reach the number of billable hours that I am supposed to hit. So if I took 4 weeks of vacation and my hours got low, they would give me a hard time about how much vacation I took. Also, I have some friends at firms that really are sweat shops and they are just entirely too busy to even think about taking that much vacation. Also, even if you are on vacation, chances are, someone will be calling you or emailing you about something anyway.
(4) Much of the work I do is very boring. No, I don't think that working in a different area of the law would be more exciting. I think it's all pretty boring.
(5) Now some things that I hate about the job are just relevant to office jobs in general, and not necessarily specific to law firms. Ever seen Office Space? Do you think that movie is a gross exaggeration of what it must be like to work in an office? It's not. I've actually hid under my desk before when I heard my boss coming so I didn't have to hear him recite Shakespeare or tell me about Greek mythology followed by him telling me I'm a philistine when I express disinterest. You can only hear that story about "the face that launched a thousand ships" so many times before it starts to get old. (In case anyone was wondering, it was Helen of Troy.) And then there was the old guy on my floor that was wearing collared shirt, tie, dress shoes, and SHORTS. When I was unfortunate enough to run into him in the kitchen and inquire about why he was wearing shorts, he said he had a skin condition on his leg and couldn't wear pants. UGH!!!! Gross. You just can't make this stuff up.
(6) There are a lot of non-billable things that you are expected to do, such as marketing event, bar luncheons, etc. These things sound like they could be fun, but not when they are cutting into your billable hour time. So then you have to make up for the billable hours you missed.
(7) I'd love to have a job where I can leave at 5:00pm or 5:30pm and not have to feel like I am sneaking out. Is that asking too much???

In general, the quality of life just isn't all that good and the pay isn't worth it.


Regardless, you still owe me a filet mignon.

I think that some people are fortunate to have found what they are meant to do so they are happy. I don't think that most people ever find that. Most people seem to be unhappy with their jobs. My mom and sister are about the only people that seem to enjoy their jobs and never complain about work at all. They are both in the airline industry....