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Re-Post: Stages of Pilot Career

Old 11-09-2011, 02:40 PM
  #21  
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Sky, your story is not very accurate after about stage 7. There are many outcomes to the career pilot dream and end game regret is only one of them. Many if not most of the pilots who love their work are not here plugging for it in the "Leaving the Career" forum. It would be more accurate if your story dropped in some real statistics. What percentage of the professionals leave the career before age 65? What percentage gets laid off? I think you have a pretty good story up to a point, very thought provoking, but it needs some more facts. It does not ring true as it stands because each of us knows a pilot who loves his work.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:40 PM
  #22  
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Default Come on now

Hey now, this is the "Leaving the Career" section after all. Why do all you happy martyrs feel obliged to comment here? People here are supposed to be sharing ideas and concepts about getting out.

When your time comes we will be happy to welcome you too with suggestions and positive reinforcement that you are making the right choice for yourself.

Skyhigh
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:52 PM
  #23  
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Default Plots love their work

Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
Sky, your story is not very accurate after about stage 7. There are many outcomes to the pilot aspiration, and regret is only one of them. Many if not most of the pilots who love their work are not here plugging in the "Leaving the Career" column. It would be more accurate if your story dropped real statistics into the mix. What percentage of the pros leave the career before age 65? What percentage spends what percentage of the career laid off? I think you have a pretty good stor but it needs more facts. It does not ring true as it stands because each of us knows a pilot or two who loves his work.
It is true that there are plenty of pilots who love their work and that is great for them. There are also people who have become conditioned to prison life and are happy there too.

My aim is to connect with those who hold desires of a different life other than what flying the line can currently offer. In my case I thought that aviation would lead to a better life with more income and control over my days than what aviation currently offers for most.

I believe that pilot compensation and conditions have changed to the point of being nearly inhuman on the lower rungs. The career demands too much and offers too little in return to the average family man/woman pilot. Future trends I believe will be a continuation of decline in all that what was once good about the profession.

Some are going to press ahead anyway and that is great. Someone has to do it after all. However not everyone is good with putting their life through the meat grinder. They have families to support, hobbies and other outside interest that add to the quality of their lives. People need to know. They need the full and ugly truth put before them and if they still choose to press on then good for them.

I know plenty of pilots who are not positive about the career. Sully Sullenberger and Barry Schiff jump to mind. Sully even went before congress with his dissatisfaction regarding the career. Didn't you choose away from an airline career?

SKyhigh

Last edited by SkyHigh; 11-09-2011 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:01 PM
  #24  
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Default For those who missed it.

The glory days are over
BY BARRY SCHIFF (From AOPA Pilot, June 2006.)

Barry Schiff retired from TWA in 1998 after a 34-year career with the airline.

I have been agonizing over the topic of this column for a few years, not knowing if I should publicly air my personal thoughts. Not to do so, I finally concluded, would be intellectually dishonest. So at the risk of attracting flak, here goes.

I was hired as a pilot by Trans World Airlines in 1964. This was during the glamour years that began after World War II. Airline salaries were rising, working conditions improved with every contract renewal, and airline pilots earned approval and respect from every quarter. On international flights, airline pilots were treated like royalty.

No one working for Pan American World Airways or TWA during this period could possibly have anticipated the demise of their airlines. These were cultural icons of the twentieth century. At one time, TWA's logo was the second most recognizable in the world (Coca-Cola's was the first).

The death knell for this era sounded on October 24, 1978, when President Jimmy Carter signed the Airline Deregulation Act. The merits and demerits of deregulation aside, the long-term result for pilots was etched in stone. There would be an erosion of wages, working conditions, pensions, and job security.

Things got worse after the terrorist attacks of 9/11. Because of the need for additional security, airline pilots are locked in their cockpits behind bulletproof doors and suffer the indignity of coordinating trips to the lavatory with flight attendants.

The glory years are gone.

I could not have been prouder when my son Brian was hired by TWA in 1989. Although conditions had declined since the airlines were deregulated, being an airline pilot was still a great job. He upgraded to captain on the Boeing 727 11 years later. Although thrilled to be in the left seat of a jetliner for a major carrier, he worked harder and earned a smaller salary than I did many years previously.

TWA was assimilated by American Airlines in 2001. During the next two years Brian went from left seat to right seat to the street. He had been furloughed and eventually found a job flying Learjets for a Part 135 operator. He now flies as captain of a Canadair Regional Jet for a commuter carrier.

Like thousands of others who have been furloughed from the majors, he has no idea when he will be recalled. Considering that American is reducing its need for pilots by contractual increases in pilot productivity and outsourcing many of its shorter, thinner routes to commuter carriers, it could be many years before Brian again sees an American Airlines' flight deck. Another of my sons, Paul, began to satisfy his desire to become an airline pilot in 2000 when he was hired by Trans States Airline, a company that operated TWExpress, US Airways Express, and AmericanConnection. Paul bounced between all three and discovered after 9/11 that he was not making headway in accruing seniority.

After four domicile changes, he opted to leave Trans States and obtain a more promising position with United Express. He worked there for three years, during which he had as many changes in domicile, and discovered that the most he had earned after six years as a commuter pilot was less than $30,000 per year. He again foresaw little potential for a career like I had and with great mental anguish opted to change professions.

Paul recently started a pet-supply company, gets to spend every night in his own bed, and has an opportunity to develop a social life. As an airline pilot gone from home 21 days a month, he had little opportunity to meet someone with whom he might like to share a future. When he did meet someone, he had neither the time nor the money for dating.

Paul says, "It is relatively easy to get a job with a commuter carrier, but not because these carriers are losing pilots to the majors; they are not. The attrition rate at the regional level is high because so many pilots reach their limits of endurance and quit. They find it too difficult to live on starvation wages [especially those with families]. There usually was nothing left in my wallet after shelling out for commuting and crash-pad expenses."

Although these are anecdotal experiences, my frank and personal discussions with numerous other airline pilots corroborate my feelings about the state of the airline industry. I can no longer encourage aspiring airline pilots without first ensuring that they understand the treacherous and daunting journeys typically required to reach for such lofty goals.

Do not misunderstand. Coping with the challenges of weather, communing with nature in a way that only pilots can appreciate, and maneuvering a sophisticated aircraft from one place on Earth to another remains a stimulating and gratifying endeavor (although I think it was more fun with less automation). It is the price one must pay to get there that is so discouraging.

I frequently am asked for advice about becoming an airline pilot. The best advice I can offer those determined to endure the rigorous hardships often required is to simultaneously develop a sideline vocation that can be used in case of emergency. A pilot should never get into a position that is totally dependent on income from an airline.

Does the end justify the means? Does becoming a captain for a major airline justify all that must be endured to get there? Perhaps, but surviving long enough to get there is the problem.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:25 PM
  #25  
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Captain HINDSIGHT - YouTube
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Old 11-09-2011, 04:38 PM
  #26  
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I was just watching this lecture to a group of future leaders at the USAFA.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...gen-welsh.html

I really like what he starts to say at 11+50.

When discussing the what the future holds for the graduates he says:
"You have absolutely no idea what is going to happen..."
He then goes on to say:
"Some of you have these goals and dreams that you have had your whole life and you'll achieve them. Others have goals and dreams you've had your whole life and you're not even going to come close..."
But he never says to not try.
As the once famous Marine Recruiting poster stated: No one promised you a rose garden!
(Anyone remember that poster? Classic!)

There are those.....and there are others.
You decide which one you want to be and press forward.

USMCFLYR
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Old 11-09-2011, 05:12 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
I was just watching this lecture to a group of future leaders at the USAFA.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...gen-welsh.html

I really like what he starts to say at 11+50.

When discussing the what the future holds for the graduates he says:
"You have absolutely no idea what is going to happen..."
He then goes on to say:
"Some of you have these goals and dreams that you have had your whole life and you'll achieve them. Others have goals and dreams you've had your whole life and you're not even going to come close..."
But he never says to not try.
As the once famous Marine Recruiting poster stated: No one promised you a rose garden!
(Anyone remember that poster? Classic!)

There are those.....and there are others.
You decide which one you want to be and press forward.

USMCFLYR
Well said....
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:05 PM
  #28  
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[Moderator Edit: Delete quoted post]

Hopefully things will work out better for you junior. Re-post in 15 years or so and we'll see how you feel about things.

I'm still in the business, can't figure out a good way out, but if I could I would. I resent earning half of what I should, and having no job security, and being gone 2/3 or more of my life. By all accounts, I've made mostly the "right" decisions, and in many ways I've accomplished more professionally than I had imagined.

It's not worth it. I'll buy in on part of that time machine if you decide to make it a fractional deal - THAT was the career I signed on for. What it has become is similar only in the fact that we're still operating metal tubes from point A to B.

This ride sucks. I want a refund.

Last edited by TonyWilliams; 11-09-2011 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:50 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by USMCFLYR View Post
I was just watching this lecture to a group of future leaders at the USAFA.
http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/mi...gen-welsh.html

I really like what he starts to say at 11+50.

When discussing the what the future holds for the graduates he says:
"You have absolutely no idea what is going to happen..."
He then goes on to say:
"Some of you have these goals and dreams that you have had your whole life and you'll achieve them. Others have goals and dreams you've had your whole life and you're not even going to come close..."
But he never says to not try.
As the once famous Marine Recruiting poster stated: No one promised you a rose garden!
(Anyone remember that poster? Classic!)

There are those.....and there are others.
You decide which one you want to be and press forward.

USMCFLYR
I want to have a better life, more income, more control. I want to live where and how I desire. I want to be the one who decides when I go to bed and to get up when I feel rested.

I especially know that I do not want to be a tool for a corporation ever again. I want the corporation to be a tool for me. Airline pilots have lost any power or professional value they ever had to the industry.

They are a profit source for management. Squeezed dry of pensions, wages and benefits whenever the company needs to show a margin. Not for me.

Skyhigh
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Old 11-10-2011, 05:10 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by SkyHigh View Post
I want to have a better life, more income, more control. I want to live where and how I desire. I want to be the one who decides when I go to bed and to get up when I feel rested.

I especially know that I do not want to be a tool for a corporation ever again. I want the corporation to be a tool for me. Airline pilots have lost any power or professional value they ever had to the industry.

They are a profit source for management. Squeezed dry of pensions, wages and benefits whenever the company needs to show a margin. Not for me.

Skyhigh
Absolutely - and the difference here is that no one is saying that you should drop everything and get back into aviation. Some of us are happy with your decisions and wish you the best of luck in your current lifestyle. Most of the ones who post with negative responses to you are usually the ones tired of you harangering them for the choices that they have made and the contempt that oozes out of your posts towards the people in this profession.

Just like in other aspects of life - there are those that are happy with letting people make decisions and live their lives and there are those who wish to control another's destiny and make decisions for him/her.

You like to try and make your points back belittling and insulting professional pilots. You can't hide from those facts from anyone on these forums that have been around awhile and read your posts. You took your hatred of the industry and transferred it to the pilots. That Sky is wrong and smacks of jealousy.

You are beholden to the housing market and the buyers of your free ranging whatever you happen to be raising or growing right now.
You are not free of anything. You are still part of the complex socio-economic merry-go-round that the rest of us are riding; unless of course you have moved to the wilderness, built you own log cabin with hand made tools, rasied your own meat, grew your own veggies, and dug your own well.
No?
Welcome to the game Sky.

USMCFLYR
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