Leaving the career for med school
 

Long story short, I am getting real sick and tired of it all. Eagle in bankruptcy, Pinnacle looking for pay cuts (Good job on standing up to management), Gojet/TSA fiasco. Ten years ago I would of never imagined considering anything but someting involving aviation as a career. Now the thought of going to medical school is sounding a lot more appealing and has been lingering in my head longer than I anticipated it would: Expect to make six figures after completing residency, home every night, constantly a shortage of qualified personal, etc, etc. ER doctors work around 30 hours a week and make just under $400k a year. They also have a "reserve" systems similar to airport ready reserve, where doctors get top notch facilities and are on standby waiting for ER patients. I can keep going on and on about how well they have it, but I know there must also be some negative aspects to this career.

I am in my mid twenties and I don't think it's too late even if it means four years of medical school and four more years of residency. My questions for APC members are:

-Am I nuts?

-Has anyone heard of an airline pilot leaving the career and going to medical school?

-At the end what specialty did the former pilot choose?

-Were they happy/satisfied after they left?

I appreciate everyones opinion and advice.

You're never too late for med school. With that said the grass isn't always greener. Doctors are taking huge paycuts. You definitely aren't guaranteed $400,000 right out of residency. Surgeons make between $400 and 600k. General practitioners and ER doctors are more in the $150-200k range (I could be wrong). Sure you're not going to be poor, but the hours and headaches are there just as much as you see in the airlines. Lot's of school and student loans ahead with no guarantee on your return. Not to mention the health care system debacle that is going on in our country.

With that said I joined a doctor forum similar to our airline forum a few years back when I was considering making the cross over to be a Pilot Physician in the Air Force. You'd be surprised how many...

"I'm thinking about leaving medicine and becoming a pilot" threads you will find on their forums. Like I said the grass isn't always greener.

The fact of the matter is both of our professions require a great deal of commitment, both financial and mental dedication, for many years before you see any return on your investment.

Personally I made my decision after talking to a lot of my doctor friends. Like I said we all have to pay our dues at the beginning, but when I finally make it to the top I want a lot of time off and that's not something doctors have a lot of. They work long hours and have a lot of headaches from insurance companies, medicare, etc. Sure they have the edge in the salary department, but I think I'd rather make a little less, but work a whole lot less and know that when I come home I'm leaving my work at work. Just my .02.

Good luck!

Another idea you might consider is becoming a Physician Assistant, I don't know if your familiar with it but this is something I've been thinking about for a long time. The benefit of this is the program is usually about 2 years, although you must meet prereqs. There is no residency, thus less debt. Also many jobs and you can work in any area of medicine. You won't make MD money, but you would start around 80k and go up to 6 figs. Just something to consider. I like the idea of making money in 2 years as opposed to 4 years of med school, which means 2 less years of paying and 2 more years you are making money,

My family doc continually *itches about insurance - liability and the paperwork involved in getting a claim paid.

He just went "concierge" last year, went from 2400 patients to 600. The 600 kick in 1500/yr just to see him (our insurance pays this!). He says he's busier than ever now. His hours are longer, works Saturdays, and the 600 have his cell phone #.

At least he has small fingers.

You are absolutely right. Commitment is everything and there are many similarities between the two career fields. I agree with you about paying your dues as well, but in the last 4 years it has been a never-ending cycle of paying your dues. Furloughs, bankruptcies, downsizing, etc, etc. I don't want to sound like an Occupy Wallstreet activist(because I am not), or the typical 20-year-old who expects everything to be given to him/her on a golden platter. I am just beginning to see that this cycle may continue for another 10 years before an opportunity may arise for a decent quality of life, and that to me is more important than anything else right now.

I think I need to read this doctor forum to better educate myself on what to expect.. Can I ask you to PM me a link to it?

Thanks for your input and advice.

I was not familiar with that path. Definetly something I will be doing more research on this week....-thank you!

The local university here has a program in this. But it is notoriously difficult to get into. First, they require an equivalent of 3 years of paid experience of direct patient care prior to even applying for the program, on top of the prereqs. They had 800 ish applicants to the program last year, interviewed 90, accepted 45.

You might read this article before you go into debt (again) chasing another career.

Small Business: Doctors going broke - Jan. 5, 2012

I would go the Physicians Assistant or RN route.

By the way, lawyers are no different. Law grads are pouring Starbucks because no jobs exist. 100K+ school debt.

good luck

No problem dude. I'll just post it on here for everyone to use...

forums dot studentdoctor dot net

Interesting dilemma - I think you need a lot more exposure to the medical field and what it means to be a physician. It is not sunshine and roses, but clear benefits and drawbacks to the career.

Your decision is really primarily not about salary, because the lifestyle choice that you are about to make will dominate your whole experience, er.., well, your whole life! If your reasons for becoming a physician are only as enumerated above (primarily financial), you will likely have a huge disappointment. You have to decide first, and foremost, "do I want to become a doctor." Salary will come and go, what may be high paying now may be low paying later. There are a LOT of better ways to earn money at much lower personal cost and work.

First of all, your numbers are way off for the ER doctors... National median salary is probably near to $225k, not "just under 400k". Medicine is weird in that big city salaries are likely lower than those out in "undesirable" areas (supply and demand... people are willing to work for cheap in Boston but not in Fargo, North Dakota.) ER physicians have huge stress, and a very high malpractice / rate of getting sued.

Secondly, starting medical school requires prerequisites, including biology, chemistry, physics... have you done these in college? If not, you'd need a minimum 2 year postbac program prior to applying to medical school. If you didn't go to a strong college, getting into a good medical school can be difficult. Schools discriminate a bit against older applicants, meaning it is harder to get in a bit (but if you are still in your 20's that should be ok) as they have less "time" to practice, and residency positions are still subsidized by the government a bit (but not much). If you don't go to a good medical school, getting into a good residency (competitive residency) could also be difficult.

Expect to earn $45k when in residency and fellowship, together with budgeting $150k in student loans.

Short story is, it can be done, but is a huge commitment, and not something to be taken casually. You shouldn't decide something like this over the internet, but be in touch with doctors, perhaps a school counselor, and talk to people in and out of training. Certainly talking with fellow pilots is useful for the pilot perspective, but also mosey on down to studentdoctor dot net, they will have a lot of information for you and people would be happy to help.

I don't think you are nuts at all, sounds like a great idea. I also think that your story will become more common place in the coming years as those who are currently in flight school or are coming on to regionals etc start figuring out that this career is a complete joke. What you are doing takes sack, and you are certainly young enough to recover, and id bet the farm you will never look back except to laugh.

Don't the railroads pay well? I would imagine you already have the educatuon they require for most of he jobs a rail road would require.

Well I know I wouldn't do it, because your making it sound way too easy and hopeful. Realistically ask yourself: do you want to be a doctor, paycheck aside. I know I am smart enough, but my heart would not be in it. That and who likes being around sick people all the time? Really I kid though, good luck.

Not to burst anyone's bubble I wish you luck, but PA school isn't just something you pay for and complete like flight school is. You need a pre-med or strong science background with your bachelors and proven clinical hours just to apply. My girlfriend is attending now. She had to compete with over 1000 qualified applicants just to get the interview, they interviewed 100 and accepted 35.

Med school is even more competitive and the MCAT's are notoriously difficult.

To answer the OP's question yes I know two pilots who are now doctors and one doctor who is now a pilot.

One of my very good friends started off in life wanting nothing more than to be a commercial pilot. He got as far as the regionals and decided to blow it off. Note, that he already had completed a pre med program and had graduated at the top of his class as in number one, he scored one of the highest scores in history on his MCATS. He then graduated numero uno in medical school and is now a Pulmonary critical care specialist, internal medicine and sleep medicine specialist. He let the Navy pay for his medical school and it was a fantastic deal for him. he stayed in the Navy and is due to retire and go into private practice soon.

I have another friend who after spending ten years with me at UAL applied and got accepted to CU Medical School. He is finished with medical school and is a resident but I'm not sure what in.

I know a guy who was an ER doctor. He hated it. He is now a corporate pilot. he tells me that he doesn't miss medicine one tiny little bit.

Hey I realize getting into PA school is not easy, but neither is med school, and I was suggesting it as an alternative to that. As a PA school applicant I know there are prereqs and interviews and how competitive it is to get in. With that said you do not need a premed degree you can have a degree in anything, sure it helps to have some of the classes done, but what is really important is your undergrad gpa and science gpa. I think PA school is by far a smarter choice than med school, unless you absolutely want to be a doctor.
My advice to the OP is this; shadow a PA, even multiple PAs and see if you like it. You can do this by going to your states PA website and they will usually send you a list of PAs who will allow you to shadow. If you like it after shadowing then start searching programs near you and see what the prereqs are. Let me tell you this, there are MANY programs that DO NOT require any health care experience, these are probably where you'll want to apply. Sure its tough and competitive, but you have experience as a pilot and believe me that will impress the interviewers. I don't know where you live, but in cleveland there is a program offered through CSU and Cuyahoga Community College, this is where I'm applying this year, No health care experience required. Total cost of the program is about 30 grand, which I think may be the cheapest program in the country. And remember there are lots of schools all over so even if you don't get in at some schools, you will get in somewhere else if you keep trying.
BTW the MCAT is not really the standard for most schools, the GRE is required at the majority.

I almost forgot to mention this, but another really good option for a pilot interested in the healthcare field is to become a cardiovascular perfusionist. I actually did some shadowing and applied to the program at the cleveland clinic which is the number one program in the country. A perfusionist is basically responsible for running the heart lung machine during cardiopulmonary bypass. The pay is very good and I thought it was a cool job. You literally keep people alive while there heart is stopped. The great thing about this field is it is not very well known, thus not as competitive to get in. I'll be honest when I interviewed at the cleveland clinic 8 interviewed, 6 got in, I didn't. But during the interview the director specifically talked about having the same skills as a pilot, such as performing under pressure. This program is 18 months, the new class just started this Jan. Heres a link Cardiovascular Perfusionist Program Heres a link to all programs Perfusion Training Programs

One of the old neighbors was a perfusionist. He was on call all the time, but made bank.

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Originally Posted by cardiomd (Post 1114747)

Interesting dilemma - I think you need a lot more exposure to the medical field and what it means to be a physician. It is not sunshine and roses, but clear benefits and drawbacks to the career.

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Thanks for taking the time to respond. My decision in considering this option is not based solely off "projected salary" but also other perceived quality-of-life attributes that I automatically assumed would come with the life of becoming a physician. I have been reading through studentdoctor and realized that some things are totally different from what I originally thought but I am still continuing to do research and educating myself on what to expect.

I took two out of the three courses that you mentioned in college. I did not, however, attend a big name prestigious school so that may go against me.

I am not looking to make any drastic decisions anytime soon. I simply brought this question up to APC to see if anyone else has heard of any airline pilots pursuing this route. Introducing me to studentdoctor was probably the best thing that happened so far as it is addressing many questions and concerns.

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Don't the railroads pay well? I would imagine you already have the educatuon they require for most of he jobs a rail road would require.

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Railroads do pay well, however, its just something I am not interested in pursuing.

Its not easy. Four years of medical school and four years of residency does not sound easy at all. I would have no problem working in this field and I think I would enjoy it. But I did bring that question up in the original post to see if any former airline pilots had gone this route and if they were satisfied with the choice they made.

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To answer the OP's question yes I know two pilots who are now doctors and one doctor who is now a pilot.

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Thanks for answering my questions. The one thing your friend had completed already was a premed program by the time he was flying for the regionals. Unfortunately I don't have that kind of background..-or not yet at least.

Its interesting to see a guy that did this after spending time at the majors. It's also interesting to hear about a doctor who went from practicing medicine to flying. All food for thought here....-thanks.

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Hey I realize getting into PA school is not easy, but neither is med school, and I was suggesting it as an alternative to that. As a PA school applicant I know there are prereqs and interviews and how competitive it is to get in. With that said you do not need a premed degree you can have a degree in anything, sure it helps to have some of the classes done, but what is really important is your undergrad gpa and science gpa. I think PA school is by far a smarter choice than med school, unless you absolutely want to be a doctor.

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I almost forgot to mention this, but another really good option for a pilot interested in the healthcare field is to become a cardiovascular perfusionist. I actually did some shadowing and applied to the program at the

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This pefusionist program really caught my attention. I am going to be looking into this more. Some questions already coming to mind include what kind of demand exists for people with this type of training.

You mentioned you were applying to schools as well... are you in the same boat as me? Have you been flying and now you are looking to get out?

It's also good to know that this career wasn't a total waste if it assists me in the interview and getting into a program.

The job market for perfusionists is relatively good I believe. You have to remember there aren't really many schools offering perfusion education, and class sizes and relatively small, like I said at the Cleveland Clinic I think they can take up to 8 students. At the interview I was told that if you are willing to relocate then you would be able to get a job. If I remember correctly there's something like 4000 certified perusionists in the country so it is definitely a small community. It's not like being a PA where you can pick any city and they have tons of jobs.
To answer your question, no I'm not a pilot. I have been considering possibly going that route for a while. I have a degree in health science which honestly ain't worth much. It does qualify me to go to graduate school, which is why I have applied to perfusion and PA school. I am going to be interviewing for PA school at the end of this month, so I am pretty much just waiting for that. Honestly between being a perfusionist or a PA I really like the perfusion thing better. There isn't any patient contact, which is sort of nice, it is really a mechanical job. The Cleveland Clinic perfusion program is also shorter than PA school, 18 months vs 28 months, comparable salary, & the cost was only 18 grand, which is really unbelievably cheap to get world class training. I interviewed for the perfusion program last October, I was really hoping to get in, I believe it is the best program in the country. Your experience as a pilot would be a huge plus for this kind of job, definitely a lot of comparable skills, being confident and decisive decision maker, working under pressure, like I said the director specifically mentioned that. Unfortunately you have to wait a while to apply to this program, but there are others, I don't have much experience with them. This one seems good http://www.midwestern.edu/Programs_a...%20Description

Sounds like a good idea. I'm considering starting a 3rd degree this summer in Engineering. On the bright side, you'll have all of your training, certificates and ratings to buy a Bonanza. :P

My AME is an airways 330 Captain. At some point early on in his airways career he put himself through med school. He owns his own AME practice in addition to his career at airways. I have no idea about the particulars of how he did it (furlough, leave, reserve etc). He is on leave now from airways.

That's funny, so is mine. :)

He put himself through med school by basically bidding every weekend and holiday trip he could. I still find it amazing that he was able to pull that off. More power to 'im.

I'm proud of you! Go for it!

Judging by your screen name we have the same AME. Talk about genius (or insanity)! Bid reserve or whatever you need to do and put yourself through med school while employed by a 121 carrier. In addition to being an AME he is an ER doc. Between the two jobs I wouldnt be surprised if he is at or near a half million per year.

Keep in mind back in the day, it was easy to get that kind of time off at airways. In fact theres a few pilots there who went through med school while working. They bid rsv, and passed on every trip. Those days are long gone of course.

and between the two jobs I wonder if he has anytime to spend his half million !

He has college age kids. Lots of opportunities to spend some money. :)

Met several RR freight drivers. Both were getting out of the field. Too much time away from their families.

It's been a long time since 'ive posted on here. But as a former pilot and current optometry student I can tell you that healthcare has its problems just as flying. Do your research before making the jump to healthcare. I've seen stats where 50-60% of MD's regret their decisions to become doctors and don't recommend their children to pursue the career. Long hours (60-80 hrs a week more common than not), pay in the 100-200k range, and dealing with sick people all while having to be on call and or work crazy shifts make it not so appealing. Optometry is nice because like dentistry or podiatry you are your own boss, work 9-5 with weekends off, get to be home every night, generally don't deal with sick people who are dying, optometry is a clean profession (no blood or guts), you make 130-175k on average if you own your own practice, and you bypass med school (optometry school is 4 yrs requiring a bachelors degree and no residencies required!) Of course this is very appealing and competition to get into optometry school is stiff. anyways...just food for thought. If you love flying then do it, nothing worse than doing something you hate. You only live once and it's important to enjoy life. I don't miss flying, it wasn't for me, thus the change in careers came easy.

I’m currently a psychiatric registered nurse and I’m about to start a program to receive my doctorate degree as a psychiatric nurse practitioner. I will second what others here have said regarding pursing a PA degree or RN degree. With either degree you can choose to specialize in any part of the health care field you want! The physician route, as you already know, is a long and difficult one, so I would opine that you pursue it only and only if you have that desire 100% in your heart, otherwise, it just makes more sense financially and for your own peace of mind to look at a PA or a nursing degree. Like I said, you can pretty much choose what area of medicine you want to work in, hence what kind of patient’s you want to take care of. Good luck.

I am a RN with about 15 years of experience. I have worked in both large teaching hospitals and smaller high volume ambulatory surgical clinics. If you have the means to go to medical school I think you should. Yes healthcare is changing and no physicians do not make the same amount of money they used to but neither do pilots. They still make a very comfortable living. If you want the hectic lifestyle with a pager attached to you then those jobs are out there. If you want something with less stress those are out there as well. Yes MCATs and GREs are a pain but you can be competitive with the right amount of prep; Kaplan. I say get started as soon as you can. You will also have more opportunities with those types of jobs then you EVER will with aviation. I mean there are thousands of pilots competing for a handful of jobs. 11,000 applications on file and some company is hiring 10 guys? Think of the numbers; there terrible and not in our favor. The market is not only saturated but FLOODED with qualified applicants. If so and so hires 200 pilots in 2015 are you going to be one of the 200 out of 11,000 applicants? You see where I am going with this.

You won't have this kind of competition in the medical field.

Go to med school.

Thanks

Those are "words from the wise". A big paycheck will not make your life enjoyable if you are miserable earning it. Even worse, you will bring that misery home from work and inflict it on your family. Then you will wonder why they are unhappy, although surrounded by wealth and comfort. :(

Well said Tom. Could I make more doing something else..probably in another profession??? Perhaps..... but I enjoy my work, strive to make the industry better, my wife will tell you without a doubt that she likes the "happy flying" me, better than the bitter at home me....

Tom is right..... no amount of money is worth a miserable existence if you can not at least tolerate what you do. Life is not fair.... some will make it big in this business.....many will not.... most will enjoy what they do.....its all about choices.

What kind of impact does/will the Lasik and its successor procedures have on your occupation? And what is the pay and lifestyle like of those who don't own their own practice? I thought about entering optometry when I got out of flying but pictured myself relegated to working at some discount chain in a mall wanting to slit my wrists at night. In other words, just as miserable as I was flying.