If I had to do it all over again, I wouldn't. I fly for a wanne-be big airline who's management is decidedly anti-labor.

Who's go two thumbs and feels like he's getting played?

"This Guy!!"

It's funny how people differ... a year ago I tried walking away. I wasn't sure what I was going to do, but I decided it was time to hang up the flying hat.

... 6 months later, I was back in the air. Maybe it's the corporate vs. airline debate, but there's just something about it that's in my blood now and was too hard to get away. I have grown to love and almost depend on the spontaneity, and the randomness.

Has anyone else tried to get out only finding themselves back in a cockpit months, years later?

Walked when Independence went Ch7. Went to law school. Been sniffing around looking to get back in as I've got the magic 1000hrs of P121 Jet PIC but I just can't fathom going back to 100+ days a year in a hotel.

Practicing law not as much fun as practicing flight? :p

Not easy
 

Horses, sailing, and aviation are as addictive as drugs. It is hard to turn away but if you value the other aspects in your life that made you decide to quit in the first place then perhaps one needs to muster the drive?

Skyhigh

So what's the OP doing for a job? I like to hear about what other people that have left the industry. I've been out for 5 years as a stay at home dad while my wife started a business. I'll probably be heading back into the workforce in a couple of years and I'd love to hear about possible career options for refugee pilots.

Almost left recently to take a programming job but as a single guy I wasn't ready to end the adventure. Still, anything in the tech sphere is a solid choice right now.

Post Pilot Careers
 

Furloughed by Netjets and have been working as an accountant. Got my Master's in Accounting while at Comair and Netjets then graduated just prior to furlough. There are a lot of opportunities in the field once you get some experience. It is not flying, but if you want a profession that is in high demand, this is one.

Federal government IT...Best decision I made...Don't regret the years as a contractor but wouldn't do it again...My 2 cents worth...

I have not logged on here in quite some time but did for the hell of it. I see people asking what you are in now, a fool for leaving etc.

I did the flight instructing, banner tow, skydiver driver, check hauler routine. Aviation is as much of a lifestyle as it is about flying airplanes. It appeals to some but not others.

Just like anything it boils down to the right place at the right time. I was never in the right place at the right time in aviation but my current career for the last 22+ years has worked out well. Most folks I know would very much want to be at my current employer. IF they were to advertise for 100 openings more than 5000 have applied and that was before the economic meltdown.They haven't advertised in several years.

I started at the gas and electric company after flying, also after an interview with AMR Eagle to fly ATR's back when the bare minimum requirements were 2500TT and 500 multi. I began as a janitor making close to what I did when I left the career hauling checks in an Aztec then proceeded to be a mechanic working on every type of equipment they own for 17 years. I am now a gas man keeping people from blowing themselves up or dying of CO poisoning. Don't pick on any honest profession. To do so is nothing more than small penis syndrome. Yeah, I was a janitor so what. It proved I was a worker who was not disinclined to get his fingies dirty.

I know a pilot flying right seat in 747's who is making about what I do now but that is after maybe 8-10 years as a regional captain,,,after getting to that point. Sure he may end up earning more than me eventually but what about those 22 years making quite a bit less. It is not all about money but I have been home every night, did some of my own traveling, hunted and fished when I wanted to, etc. Flying can be like tunnel vision.

Now let us speak of something the young pups do not realize would happen. How about your health? Yeah I know, "that isn't going to happen". B.S. That is what I thought. I currently have a special issuance for something that hasn't kept me from doing a thing. The FAA requires tests that the regular medical establishment doesn't deem necessary. I won't even talk about the sleep apnea thing the FAA likes, which by the way doesn't affect me. I know of a UPS pilot who has been on medical leave for a long time because of certification and who knows if he will ever return to the cockpit.

I kind of liked the last man to give me a BFR and was wondering who I would use after he moved on. Hmm, he is back instructing after the stint with Avant Air. Something else that happens all too frequently in aviation.

One other aspect I found rather interesting. An aquaintance's daughter has just graduated from Purdue with a B.S. in aviation. Yeah they produced more astronauts than anybody but man do they fill these kids full of hyperbole. They get the sim training and time in a Phenom. She thought as soon as she graduated she would be instantly in a jet making the big bucks. Then she didn't think the newer rules for needing 1500 hours for regionals was right and she would have to instruct. wah wah wah. Reality.

If the career is working for you and the family is not starving, your needs are being met, good for you. Always have an ace in the hole. For some leaving the career was the best thing they ever did. I am one of them.

"An aquaintance's daughter has just graduated from Purdue with a B.S. in aviation. Yeah they produced more astronauts than anybody but man do they fill these kids full of hyperbole."

I had never heard this so I took a look on Wiki.
I suppose this is the crux of your statement:
Now when I took at look at each of the three men listed, it seemed that possibly being military test pilots might have had more to do with their selection than being part of the Purdue Aviation Department - if in fact any of them actually were part of Purdue Aviation.
Here is a statement from another Wiki article on Grissom:
None of the background information I scanned mentioned any affiliation.
So I guess my question is - did you mean Purdue University has graduated more astronauts than any other university or that Purdue Aviation (since you were mentioned your friend's daughter and the hyperbole that *they* were filling the students head with) produced a majority of the astronauts?

This particular person did not tell me Purdue had graduated more astronauts than anybody. I have read that while researching something else. True or not I do not know. It is obvious they have had many which could give the college chivalry a major boost. Could it be that many of their graduates also became military test pilots? I do not know that either. Guess I'm just not that much into aviation anymore.

I have acquired a rather keen street sense in my current career and noticed how shocked she was when I mentioned the fact she would most likely be on call 24/7 while starting as a right seat pilot for the regionals. She openly told me she never heard that before. Has that aspect changed since I've been in the know? Are those students that isolated while being around those supposedly in the know? In any case this person seemed totally naive about the realities of aviation which may or may not work in her favor. Again she appeared derated in the fact she needed to instruct after having jet sim time along with actual Phenom time in which they switched seats during the flight in order to get everyone their chance.

As I have said I do not know much about the industry anymore and did not even think about it for 18 years. I went to OSH in 09, seen the plane I always wanted to build (Bearhawk 4 place) and bought a rib and spar package. Three months later I threw a blood clot to the kidney and have had a special issuance ever since. I will probably sell those parts because I no longer care to play the medical game. It has not effected my life in any way or earning potential other than aviation. There is so much more of life to me anyway than the hobo life of a pilot.

Good luck to all who choose to fly and be safe. Don't let anyone pressure you into things you know are not right.

. never mind

My time as a CFI was my favorite flying an airplane. I thought wanted to fly bigger and faster, so I went to the regionals. After 7 years, and two airlines I decided it wasn't the life I wanted. I had an opportunity to join one of the larger sim training providers in the industry and decided to make the jump. The pay is decent, the benefits are great, the schedule isn't bad, and the most important aspect to me: I'm home every night with a very, very occasional trip for training at another facility (maybe twice a year). They also promote heavily from within and based on the fact that most of my coworkers have been there for years and enjoy coming to work. I like that.

There are a lot of aspects of the job that I like. No two days are the same, its challenging, I get to see the latest and greatest, I enjoy the people I work with every day and I enjoy the different experiences my clients bring to training. I usually feel like I've learned more from them than they have from me because of where they fly, how they fly the aircraft and their experience. The same holds true for most of my coworkers. I've always enjoyed human factors, safety, and culture in regards to their contributions to this field and I get to dabble in it every day.

It has taken some adjustment to being in a corporate setting but it has been an overall refreshing change of pace from immature FAs, Gate Agents with God complexes and the general stupidity that is the flying public. My wife also has to put up with me every day and sometimes she thinks that is a bad thing. :)

I think part of the problem is the people she (and other students) see as "in the know" only know the world they're in, and that world isn't the airlines. The airlines they know are the one their friends whom aren't in academia tell them about or the world they left years ago to join academia. Quite frankly, that world has changed dramatically.

I also don't think there is a strong alumni presence in aviation programs for a couple reasons. First, the last thing most people want to do on their few days at home, is be away from home doing aviation related stuff and second, the schools don't want the present-day reality painted. They don't want that student (and their parents) to know about the years of sacrifice, poor pay, poor hours, etc that it takes. They just want them to hear about the pot of gold at the front of the 777. I'm sure I would have considered another career field had I known that years at $20,000 was the reality before even being somewhere that could eventually lead to $200,00 a year.

I wish my second point would change for a few reasons. First, in the long run I think it would help the industry immensely. People trip over themselves to get those first jobs and will work them practically for free. I was always insulted as an instructor when a student would pull the whole "you're logging time, that means you should fly for free". I've never heard somebody say something like that to a plumber working on their house "you've never seen a flange like that? you should do the work for free for the experience you'll gain".

Then there's the ridiculous sense of entitlement that the "every player gets a trophy" generation has had bestowed upon them by their parents. Hard work and getting your hands dirty is now below all of us. That's a completely different subject that should have its own forum.

Ding, ding! We have a winner.

That reminds me of my instructing days. There were people who obviously did not have the coordination/mental aspects to be a pilot but I was not allowed to say so. Why? The flight school did not give a turd about that person other than the fact money was being placed into said flight school's pocket.

There are also plenty of people who are capable but due to other factors such as not being at the right place at the right time never end up being career pilots. I know of several. I grew up visiting relatives who's neighbor was a pilot that planted the seed in my older cousin then I. He ended in aviation flying corporate in a King Air. He also went on to be very successful in his own business and never was employed by anyone else again. One other lives on my block and was a chief pilot with several thousand hours of MU-2 time. Neither one even flies for enjoyment and has not done so for 20 - 30 years.

Now to some of my previous points throughout the several years I've posted on occasion. If flying is working for you so be it. If it is not, as it does not for most, I am happy for you. But::::

Everyone has a niche and being at the right place at the right time is the primary factor regardless of education.

My last flight as a pro pilot was on 9-14-90 flying checks. Yes, I was a janitor for 8 months cleaning cubicles earning close to the check hauler wage then proceeded to advance. Not many will go to this extent to prove a point that I will but I will ask how many career pilots on this board can post something comparable to this. Two weeks net after deductions including my pre tax 401k deducted and I was sleeping in my own bed every night. No college education either. Cut the crap and post yours pilots. Hearsay is nothing. Sorry, a bit rough there.

[IMG]http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r...philus/Pay.jpg[/IMG]

Oh, I tried posting today's check that was 6 bucks less but photobucket sucks.

Daaaang! Is that two weeks of pay??? Thanks for the reply to my PM.

What do you do for a living?

You are welcome Block.

Aspiring pilots will travel or move all over the country for aviation employment. If it does not work out so well they decline to do the same for employment in other areas. I happened to be fortunate not having to do that and just fell into it.

Most people will walk into an interview nervous as hell, on edge with their brain going ten miles a minute hoping to say what the employer wants to hear. I walked into the interview with no concern for any of that, had a beard, plain button up shirt and jeans thinking let the chips fall where they may. They asked if they hired me how do they know I will not leave to fly again. My response was if they hire me how do I know they will not lay me off.

Fortune 500 utility company. Everyone demands electricity or furnace fuel. Not everyone needs to fly.

I have told coworkers several times that things do not seem fair but that is life. Here a pilot may spend years of training and gaining experience for what? 80 grand in the left seat of a regional being responsible for 50 or 75 passengers?

People take their utilities for granted until they do not have it then whine. We must bust our butts to get them back in service. Until I started this job I never had a clue about a utility behind the scenes. Trust me, when utilities go out people are doing everything they can to get them going again while being safe so nobody gets hurt.

And what exactly do you do for that Fortune 500 Utility Company?

There is nothing better than looking for a job while you have a job :D

In no way am I concerned about some of the proposed legislation including that trading stuff, etc. The one I am employed by just had some legislation go their way which includes incentives for system improvements up until 2020. Right at the time I will probably retire. And no, I'm not an office boy. My job is out on the streets.

Can you say the same as a pilot?

Edit:: Not that I am concerned but I could go quite a while without employment. Unlike others I do not spend up to my level of income.

I have no idea what you are trying to spell out here.
I asked what you did for this utility company.
If you want to keep it some sort of secret - that is fine.
I was just asking.

Can I say the same about what as a pilot?

It sounds like you have some fiscal responsibility.
Do you think you are alone in that on this board?

Don't strain yourself patting your own back there BTDT ;)

Yes. That's incorrect. Part 121 pilots don't sit call 24 hours a day. Unless they're sitting long call reserve, which is typically a 12 hour min notification window. And some can do that from home while out of base. At some point, you have to have rest before you operate a 121 flight.

I'm sorry to hear about your medical issues. But being an airline pilot doesn't always mean one lives like a hobo. I typically have 15-17 days off a month, and if I sit reserve I can generally spend over 20 days month at home. And I commute.

I am sorry if I offended you as that was not my intent. I am also not trying to pat myself on the back. People who know me would say I am not competitive (maybe the reason I do not fly) laid back and certainly not egotistical.

There was talk of pending legislation that would allow utilities to trade which would be some sort of pollution credits for coal fired plants. Ours is just completing over 700 million in "scrubbers" allowing the generating stations to be in compliance with EPA rules. That is what I thought you meant by saying the best time to look for a job is while you still have one since some utilities would be negatively affected.

I just find it humorous that many in aviation can be the ultimate optimists.

I thought I had mentioned a page or two back that I am a gas man. Aside from periodic flatulance I work with natural gas as a gas serviceman. A first responder to hit lines, leaks in homes and buisinesses, pipe fitter, CO calls, turn people's utilities on and off, fire calls etc. I have also shut off thousands of people for non payment. That can get rather interesting and I have been threatened more than once.

We check a place out for compliance with the National Fuel Gas Code and work under the auspices of DOT. Yes the DOT is responsible for regulating the transmission and distribution of natural gas through their arm called PHMSA. Pipeline and Hazardous Material Safety Administration.

Did I dream of being a gas man? hecka no but whatever works.

BTDT -

You don't see posting your paycheck (which is good btw) on a public forum as a little egotistical, braggart, or back patting?
You really look back on this sentence and don't see yourself patting your own back:
...and you tried to post a second pic too :confused: For what purpose?

I was agreeing with the part of your previous post when you said:
Simply it is a good feeling to go into an interview and not NEED the job. If I cared to interview for another job right now it would be very easy because I really enjoy my job/mission, the flying, the aircraft, the people, and heck - I even like the pay and benefits :D So if I went into a job interview tomorrow I could sit across from the panel and honestly ask - why should I work for you? People don't always have that luxury wouldn't you agree?

And this glass half full attitude ONLY occurs in aviation?:rolleyes:

I'm glad that it has worked out for you. Now if someone did dream of being a pilot (of any flavor) and it has worked out, maybe you can actually be genuinely happy for them too?

Btw - you didn't answer one question from my post.
Can I do what as a pilot?

I am not privy to the multi quotes so I will answer your questions as best I can.

".and you tried to post a second pic too For what purpose?"

I was not going to post a second pic. I mentioned that because the one posted was a little dated and I could not get a current one. It bothers me not if people know that because they will never know my annual wage. Some are more, some are less depending on hours overtime but still better than I would have done in most other endeavors.

"Simply it is a good feeling to go into an interview and not NEED the job..... People don't always have that luxury wouldn't you agree?"

I did not say the job was not needed. I was within a few weeks of running out of unemployment after being layed off from check hauling. I was however living with the parents. It just so happens the company was going through the unemployment office at the time and I even had to bring an unemployment pay stub to the interview.
Once again. Right place, right time. I had already passed several pre employment tests and other interviews including the drug tests which have been a problem for those wishing to join the company.

"Now if someone did dream of being a pilot (of any flavor) and it has worked out, maybe you can actually be genuinely happy for them too?"

I know exactly what you are referring to. This:

"If flying is working for you so be it. If it is not, as it does not for most, I am happy for you. But::::"

That was a typo which was meant to say this:

"If flying is working for you so be it, I am happy for you. If it is not, as it does not for most then:"

By the time I seen that I had already reposted and could not figure out how to edit it. My brain can sometimes function faster than my fingers.
LET ME CLARIFY.
I AM OFFICIALLY NOT UNHAPPY FOR ANYBODY THAT FLYING HAS WORKED OUT FOR AND AM NOT HAPPY FOR THOSE IT HAS NOT.

There. My official position ;)

These threads always go in circles

If you're like me, and were getting physically angry every time you looked up and saw a jet flying over, don't be afraid to take the chance on getting out. You're worth more, especially if you're a disgruntled regional FO.

The industry never panned out how I hoped it would, and I was tired of being broke. The prospect of getting married this fall and starting a family while commuting put even more stress on me than I wanted. I had to make a change and was fortunate enough to find a position with a large simulator instruction provider.

I now see my "family" every night, work for a company where I feel I have a real chance at advancement. Many of my coworkers have been with the company for 20+ years. All of the managers worked their way up the ladder. It's a refreshing change of pace to be around people that are happy to be at work. Great benefits, and more than doubling my pay are only icing on the cake. For the first time in 6+ years I find myself geeking out over airplanes and am actually considering going flying for fun.

If you're not happy, don't wait. Get out. It was amazing when I was discussing the move with peers that I respect the only comment they would make was "I can't imagine not flying for a living". There's more to life than airplanes. If you're not happy, do what you need to do to be happy.

hehe see what I just did there?

thread serves no purpose. Some disgrunted "I left the career, I now make more, look at me, sucks to be you" guys on here.

No one cares.

in the end, everybody settles in and ends up doing what they are best at.

Good luck and may the force be with you

Disgruntled? I come in here for the heck of it, not because it will do me harm or good. Just curiousity. Sometimes people know they need to make a move but can not accept the reality that they should. I would suppose that is the purpose of this section. A sort of support group. If not why does this section even exist. Why are you even looking at it?

Every time I log on this forum which is very infrequently I see the same old thing A bunch of...wait for it....your almost getting it.............DISGRUNTLED.... pilots. Who's hiring, what they flying, what's the pay like.. I'm basically unhappy but am doing what I am because I need the flight time and really want to fly. To be honest, when I come here as an outsider I think of a bunch of whiny addicts. I'm almost to the point of thinking pilots are bipolar. "I'm happy as hell in the airplane but when I'm not flying there is a crash because....".

This place is actually kind of depressing to me because of all the obviously unhappy pilots looking for the better deal. Work your way up, move on, start at the bottom...repeat,, until one finally reaches nirvana.

Some have had the fast track but that is not the norm in my observations. That type has usually grown up in an aviation family or has known people in the business.

It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll.

Do you even realize the rediculousness of that statement? I'm disgruntled because I am now doing better. That proves the point of my previous post with the analogy of an addict. No different than a person telling me "yeah, you are doing better than me but I don't have to pass drug test and smoke all the pot and crack I want".

OK awesome posts you have made. Really great points. Now, lets start the clock on the "infrequent" postings.

Have a wonderful day

I am too cheap to pay for t.v. and have not done so for over 10 years. This is the entertainment channel for now. The others are on a commercial break.

the "infrequent" postings is not being helped by your lack of TV. TV is free, you can get a few local stations with the antenna. Unless you don't own a physical TV.....

Since they went to digital the rabbit ears don't cut it. I despise when it get's that static blocky look. :D Besides, I much prefer relaxing music.

This channel is putting me to sleep. Time to go to bed.

You're disgruntled because you're now doing better? Do you realize the "rediculousness" (sic) of that statement?

People who move on to better manage to let go. Disgruntled is when one gets one's nose out of joint and can't let it go, can't move on, is obsessive keeps coming back. Having found better and keeps coming back?

Sounds more like one of those wierd kids that moves on to junior high school, but can't stop hanging out at the elementary. Are you that kid?

Better is a function of degree. Did you find better wages? Congratulations. Are you making more money because you hadn't advanced far enough in your career before to make good wages, or did you find the job of a lifetime and couldn't turn it down? Either way, there's nothing about which to be disgruntled.

Did you find more upward mobility? Congratulations. Are you more upwardly mobile because you chose a section of aviation that was stalled, or because you've found a new expanding career with ever increasing opportunities? Either way, there's nothing about which to be disgruntled.

Did you find more time off with your new found career? Congratulations. Are you free more because you quit your old career too early to reach that stage, or have you found an exceptional freedom in a new line of work that give you more time at home? Either way, there's nothing about which to be disgruntled.

You get the point. I don't get your point.

I can't think of any other career directions other than professional writing which allow more time at home for me, and I can't complain about the wage I've received. I can't complain about the view from my office, the diversity, or the satisfaction on the job. If one day these things cease to be the case, I'll find something else, and I'll look back without regrets, but with gratitude for the opportunities I've had to do the things I've done. Some have been very difficult. Some have been ridiculously simple. Some have challenged, and some have bored. But I'm grateful. I've traded a large part of my life for these things, and to me, it's time well spent. If I must move one, I'll do it without being disgruntled, as such serves no point.

You?

I was out of flying for 10 years, and got back in. My last 3 flying jobs paid more than I ever made in non-flying or the military. My current job is by far the best I have ever had. Pay is decent QOL is fantastic, retirement average, medical and other benefits way better than average.

John Burke, you sound disgruntled with the disgruntled...