Originally Posted by Vital Signs (Post 2107033)

Herc i agree with you but the problem is with so many pilots....
Years ago was at a non aviation career placement class, I tell the lady all of my education and experience, and her reply.." So you are qualified for nothing"

Excellent reason to major in something other than prof aviation degree.

Originally Posted by Yow av8r (Post 2071161)

I am in the early stages of the career but know that the career is not right for me.

I am just having trouble changing my career because it is hard to tell everyone especially my parents who paid for my training/schooling.

Part of my issue is I know that switching over to sales/business isn't going to be smooth. I sort of have a plan, but the issue is i need to stay at my parents home because i want to move back to my hometown with no money.

even without these problems i am sure people will ask why i am making the change with something i appear to be passionate about. truth is am not anymore.

any tips or personal experiences would help me out

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2107099)

Everything connects.

We learn about calligraphy by throwing a football. We can learn about throwing a football by driving a car. We can learn about driving a car by making toast. Everything connects.

There are aspects and skills in everything we do which transfers to other things, whether it's the raw mechanical skills, or more esoteric but essential elements such as patience, attention to detail, or the all-important sticktuitiveness of following through with a project once begun.

To say that a professional aviator isn't qualified to do anything else is to express a great deal of personal ignorance, both on the topic of flying, but on the transfer of learning, as well as the capacity of the human mind. It speaks volumes to a bias that disregards what's involved in being an aviator in the first place.

Think about what you do as an aviator. You're an operator of mechanical and electrical equipment. You're a computer operator. You're a meteorologist. You're a shadetree mechanic. You're a jailhouse lawyer. You land things at speeds that exceed race cars. You deal in precision, calculations, data, and have considerable expertise at thinking in three dimensions, and excell at spatial orientation. If you're an instrument flyer, you play a psychological game, an intellectual one, always thinking five or ten steps ahead. A chess player that works at just under the speed of sound.

You're a manager. You manage equipment, you manage a crew. You manage systems, coordinate events across time zones, and you manage time. Hold an incredible level of responsibility, more so than the CEO at most companies. You hold the fate of the company in the palms of your two hands every time you push the power lever up, every time you set up for an approach, every time you land. You hold the futures of a hundred fifty passengers for a few hours of their lives, and have the power to alter thousands of lives in a second, and consequently to preserve them and to benefit them, their families, and their descendants. You are a crucial element in terrorism and piracy prevention. You're a security specialist.

When the door to the airplane closes and pushes back, your authority exceeds that of the president; you've been given ultimate authority over the conduct of that aircraft, enabled to violate any regulation for the purposes of safety, if need be. You can do anything necessary to ensure the safety of that flight. Most employees at most companies have a thin employe manual to learn. Yours is fifteen hundred pages thick, and that's just the first manual. Your company finally issued them on a disc because the fifteen volumes, each too heavy to carry by itself, were overly burdensome, and you're responsible not only to live by them, but to know them, back to front, at all times. Your'e tested on that knowledge, operationally, regularly.

You're vetted. If you're working, you've been tested, you've been checked. You've been examined, and you've had to compete for your job. This is no small thing. Employers have found you worthy to take on these responsibilities over and above dozens, hundreds, perhaps thousands of other applicants, and you've effectively had to re-interview and re-test for that job every 3 to six months, ever since. Nothing taken for granted.

Good luck for a company outside aviation to ever have an applicant who's been so proven, been given such a level of responsibility. You think nothing of taking one hundred fifty million dollars worth of equipment in your hands, along with the reputation of the company, the legal responsibility and duty of every bag, box, and passenger, and the lives of their wives, children, husbands, parents, employers, and loved ones, every time you go to work, day in and day out, and you do it with ease. Where else is an employer outside aviation going to find someone who does that? Not many places.

For someone to say you're not qualified to do anything outside aviation is a deeply ignorant act. If only they knew.

Originally Posted by JohnBurke (Post 2107099)

Everything connects.



We learn about calligraphy by throwing a football. We can learn about throwing a football by driving a car. We can learn about driving a car by making toast. Everything connects.



There are aspects and skills in everything we do which transfers to other things, whether it's the raw mechanical skills, or more esoteric but essential elements such as patience, attention to detail, or the all-important sticktuitiveness of following through with a project once begun.



To say that a professional aviator isn't qualified to do anything else is to express a great deal of personal ignorance, both on the topic of flying, but on the transfer of learning, as well as the capacity of the human mind. It speaks volumes to a bias that disregards what's involved in being an aviator in the first place.



Think about what you do as an aviator. You're an operator of mechanical and electrical equipment. You're a computer operator. You're a meteorologist. You're a shadetree mechanic. You're a jailhouse lawyer. You land things at speeds that exceed race cars. You deal in precision, calculations, data, and have considerable expertise at thinking in three dimensions, and excell at spatial orientation. If you're an instrument flyer, you play a psychological game, an intellectual one, always thinking five or ten steps ahead. A chess player that works at just under the speed of sound.



You're a manager. You manage equipment, you manage a crew. You manage systems, coordinate events across time zones, and you manage time. Hold an incredible level of responsibility, more so than the CEO at most companies. You hold the fate of the company in the palms of your two hands every time you push the power lever up, every time you set up for an approach, every time you land. You hold the futures of a hundred fifty passengers for a few hours of their lives, and have the power to alter thousands of lives in a second, and consequently to preserve them and to benefit them, their families, and their descendants. You are a crucial element in terrorism and piracy prevention. You're a security specialist.



When the door to the airplane closes and pushes back, your authority exceeds that of the president; you've been given ultimate authority over the conduct of that aircraft, enabled to violate any regulation for the purposes of safety, if need be. You can do anything necessary to ensure the safety of that flight. Most employees at most companies have a thin employe manual to learn. Yours is fifteen hundred pages thick, and that's just the first manual. Your company finally issued them on a disc because the fifteen volumes, each too heavy to carry by itself, were overly burdensome, and you're responsible not only to live by them, but to know them, back to front, at all times. Your'e tested on that knowledge, operationally, regularly.



You're vetted. If you're working, you've been tested, you've been checked. You've been examined, and you've had to compete for your job. This is no small thing. Employers have found you worthy to take on these responsibilities over and above dozens, hundreds, perhaps thousands of other applicants, and you've effectively had to re-interview and re-test for that job every 3 to six months, ever since. Nothing taken for granted.



Good luck for a company outside aviation to ever have an applicant who's been so proven, been given such a level of responsibility. You think nothing of taking one hundred fifty million dollars worth of equipment in your hands, along with the reputation of the company, the legal responsibility and duty of every bag, box, and passenger, and the lives of their wives, children, husbands, parents, employers, and loved ones, every time you go to work, day in and day out, and you do it with ease. Where else is an employer outside aviation going to find someone who does that? Not many places.



For someone to say you're not qualified to do anything outside aviation is a deeply ignorant act. If only they knew.

Originally Posted by kevbo (Post 2107872)

You may have to relocate and work weekends but we pay Cadillac a month wages. Oh well, two out of three ain't bad, is it?

Originally Posted by C37AFE (Post 2563670)

I am going through this now. I am just completing a 22 year military career as a flight engineer. I just hit my ATP minimums after thousands of $$$ in debt.

I love all facets of aviation, I have A&P, dispatcher, comm, as/mel/s, glider, gyro, all the CFI tickets.

I began to add heli and was in an accident week 1. I now question flying helicopters and flying in general. I took my daughter up other day and the joy was not their at all. My wife hates me being gone and does not want an airline career.

I've worked to get where I am with the goal of a major airline all this time and now can't be bothered to interview. I read gouges and feel like my brain has dumped all the knowledge that is basic.

I think it's a phase and don't want to miss out on the opportunity to get in with an airline.

Looking for some motivation.