When did you know its time to leave?
 

I am pretty new to the job. Regional FO at a growing and well paying 121. I thought flying large aircraft and travelling would be a blast, but honestly, it wasn't what I thought. Not fulfilling, often not challenging, and I find myself thinking of what I would be doing if I was in a different career and home. The time away from home is brutal, commuting sucks, and I am not willing to move to base for a regional - too many roots where I am at. I kind of feel like I am in this lull of "How can I keep this up for the rest of my career?". I am pretty young, early 20's, so still plenty of life left. I do have an alternate career plan that I've been pursuing part-time on my off days and that I love every time I get to do it. Its exciting, fulfilling, pay is alright (nothing special), work relatively independent (plus for me), and I am home every night with a company car full of toys.

I guess my question here is when did you know that you wanted to get out? was there a straw that broke the camel's back? did anyone have this feeling and then found as you gain seniority/experience it goes away? I can always leave for three or four years and come back into it if I wanted to pretty easily (can flight instruct part-time while I'm out to stay current). I am just nervous about leaving then having to restart in seniority in 5 or 10 years if I wanted back in.

Two lines of thinking: Im 23 - stick with it and I could be top #100 at a major one day. Im 23 - I could dick around as a LEO for 5 years, jump back in at 28 and still be senior at a major one day, just have some rougher times in the early 30s playing catch up.

Anyone with a similar experience/thoughts care to share their perspective?

It is rare to find someone that can afford to think so little of their career after achieving a degree and ATP rating.

I'm not in your shoes, but I can tell you are not in the wrong career. You are in the wrong job. There are way too many paths in aviation to feel pigeon holed by a bad experience at an airline you have to commute to.

Unfortunately, that may be where the money is for you. Wherever you live, there may be a glass ceiling for locally based aviation jobs. My best advice is to get enough experience under your belt to make yourself marketable again if you quit and then come back.


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I'm 5.5 years deep at a regional. I'm trying to get to a major before I quit, but it's not looking promising. Some how, God made people to like airport terminals and hotel rooms, I just wasn't one of them. Everybody says a major will be better. But will it?

I agree. I feel as if I should I should be excited and motivated after reaching this point after so long trying. But in the end, it's forced. I am by no means the worlds greatest pilot, but the cockpit has already turned into a mundane routine with less than 6 months on line. There are moments of fun and learning and amazement, followed by a slam click at a double tree with nothing in walking distance wishing I could go hiking, or out with friends, or find another girlfriend.


I appreciate the advice. I guess the only way to know for sure is to give it a try in something else to compare. For me, its not the company. The company is excellent - treats me well and pays top tier, its more the lifestyle and job function. I would try to get at least 1000 or 1500 turbine in type prior to leaving, which would hopefully make me more marketable to various positions. If i stay for 1.5 years I should upgrade, so if the hiring process takes too long in my other career, I may end up staying for the TPIC...wait a couple more years tho and get a major interview...pass that and then leaving would be darn near impossible.

My thoughts exactly. Will I be so much happier in 5 to 7 years at a Major doing the EXACT same job just making more money with a couple extra more days off. I would probably move to base for a major, so that would help a lot, but ultimately the job won't change. Its just so hard to make a decision to leave in such a strong hiring environment with no guarantee that this wave of hiring will ever come again. I may not be a top tier 1 candidate, but I have enough diversity to hopefully be marketable to a major one day.

A Captain was about to retire, but felt dissatisfied and unfulfilled after 40 years of airline flying. On his last layover in Japan, he went to consult the Wise Old Guru and asked: "Has my whole career been a mistake?"
The Guru replied: "Too soon to tell." ;)

As someone else mentioned, maybe the problem is your job and not necessarily the career.

I also dreamed of being an airline pilot but fell into the corporate/charter side of aviation. I fly a mix of 91/135. We go to some great locations. Hiking in Bozeman and Salt Lake is great in the summer. We book our own hotels (usually a lot nicer than the double tree) and keep all the points. We always get a rental car but sometimes we skip it if staying in a downtown area. My per diem is triple that of what my airline friends are getting at the regionals. I like to eat good food. Like you, I prefer to walk around so I always plan my hotel stay based on location. Last year, I spent several weeks on the beaches of Mexico during spring break. Looking for another girlfriend? If I were 23 again, I would have had a new "girlfriend" every week from different college. Did I mention the drinking age is 18 down there? Do you like diving in the carribean? Surfing in Hawaii? Croissant and espresso at a side walk cafe in Paris? My FO pay was comparable to a regional captain or even more in some case especially after factoring in per diem.

I don't want to debate the pros / cons of corp vs. airline flying. I think long term, airlines (especially majors which you definitely have a shot at your age) offers higher overall pay and more benefits. The actual flying part is more mundane. My friends on that side treat the job as going to work, "slam click at the double tree" as you said, work as little as possible while maximizing the pay.

Commuting would definitely suck the life out of anyone. My friends who live in base are flying 10 days a month or less. Some actively try to fly as little as possible to retain seniority while pursuing other ventures.

I have another friend who spent years spraying crops and now flys fire bombers. He loves his job. No 500' and autopilot on. He works the season and has several months off during the year. Flys contract and pursues business ventures when he's off.

Personally, I still flight instruct independently. Good side cash and reminds me why I got into this job in the first place. It's a breath of fresh air to deal with young, passionate aviators. Plus hand flying little planes in hard IMC with no AP keeps the skills sharp.

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Originally Posted by Black and Blue (Post 2125694)

I am pretty new to the job. I thought flying large aircraft and travelling would be a blast, but honestly, it wasn't what I thought. Not fulfilling, often not challenging, and I find myself thinking of what I would be doing if I was in a different career and home.

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Your first line says it all to me. "I'm pretty new to the 'JOB'."

I've worked in aviation for over 30 years. Airplanes have been a passion of mine since I was 8 years old, years before I even took my very first flight. I worked to become a military pilot and later on, a commercial pilot. Sure, there are downsides to the pilot lifestyle sometimes. It's not always fresh and exciting. Still, if I remain open to it, I can regularly find amazement and excitement in man's ability to fly, the advanced technologies that continue to make it more efficient and safer, the satisfaction of seeing a flight come together smoothly in spite of the challenges we face on the line, and the awesome views I get to see out of my "office window." Sometimes, I even see the appreciation and gratitude on my passenger's faces and their remarks to me as they deplane. And I enjoy sharing my love of aviation with our passenger's children who are awed in a tour of the cockpit and smile with glee in getting their picture taken there. For me, it all makes it worthwhile. For me, it's not "just a 'JOB'." It's a passion that is in my blood and it's my career. It is what I do. It's even a big part of who I am.

Of course, the pay at a major airline helps to keep me motivated. But the pay isn't why I pursued this career and it isn't why I continue in it. It's just the icing on the cake. I get paid (well) to do something I love.

Commuting sucks so I try to avoid it. It makes my life unnecessarily hard if it is a choice. Being junior sucks, but it's a temporary circumstance. If your heart is in the right place, you'll be able to keep it in perspective and see the big picture. Hotels and layovers can sometimes suck. But it's a part of the career to me and I take it in stride. Sometimes, hotels and layovers can also be awesome when I have a nice hotel and a long layover in a city where I can get out and explore and do different things. Sometimes, I even bring my wife along and she enjoys the trip too! Being more senior helps the layover equation over time. I can choose to be away from home less or to fly better trips. Or choose trips with better layovers. Working holidays and weekends can suck sometimes. But it's a part of the career to me and I take it in stride. On the flip side, I enjoy the flexibility and variety of my work days and hours compared to my peers. I can't imagine being stuck in a cubicle, Mon-Fri, from 9-5. Ughhh!!!

The second thing I get from your opening statements is that your expectations were not in line with reality. No, an airline career is not all high pay, glamour, and adventure. But there is some of all of that if you wait around to see it. You just have to temper your expectations. I wonder how much the potentially high pay of an airline career lured you here in the first place?? This is not something you do for the money. It has to be deeper than that or else you will be miserable here.

Pilots who thrive and succeed in this career have a passion for it. You're much too young and inexperienced to be feeling bored and discontent with it all already. It appears to me that you aren't committed to this as a career. You seem to know this because you asked for feedback.

Do yourself a favor and follow your heart. Walk away and go do whatever that other job is that fulfills you and leaves you feeling satisfied. For that matter, do your fellow pilots a favor and walk away. There's nothing worse than to be stuck on a multi-day trip with another pilot who is disgruntled about the company, the career, and aviation in general. I can't imagine how much of a "Debbie Downer" you'd be to fly with at age 65 if you tried to stick this out. :(

Be true to yourself.

To the OP, you may be taking some things for granted.

Yes, the travel aspect can be a downer. But you're standing on the edge of unprecedented opportunity in airline aviation, with decades ahead of you to cash in...not just financially, airline seniority can get you a pretty good lifestyle.

While corporate aviation is a great lifestyle for some, what would be a fantastic deal for a single guy could be heartbreaking for someone with a young family. All-expenses-paid week in a tropic resort, but he can't enjoy it because he just wants to hold his little kids. Airlines have travel too of course but with enough seniority you can minimize or eliminate lengthy absences.

If you're looking into a regular 9-5 sort of career...for most folks that means almost certainly less money long-term, way less time off and flexibility, and more stress...plus fun office politics and "out of seniority" layoffs. You'll be home every night but you're on the treadmill for sure. If you're never done that sort of job I would suggest you talk to some older pilots who have and can give you an apples-to-apples comparison. If you have big ideas and might be the next mark zuckerberg or would be interested in upper management then you'd probably be better off in industry...but for most folks who don't find work such an extreme passion that they want too do it 16 hours/day, airlines are a better deal IF your timing is right (it is for a 23 y/o).

There are of course a variety of other jobs in aviation but you have to weigh the pros and cons of each.

Bottom line, due to the rare opportunity you have (this career sucked for my generation) I would think very carefully about bailing on airlines. But like you said, you're young enough to try something else and come back.

It doesn't get better. If you feel the way you do and you stick to this career, you will be miserable, forever. I am also bored of this job and I am at United, late 20's here. I am thinking of going back to a top tier MBA program and going to Wall Street afterwards. I feel my degree from MIT is going to waste being a pilot. Other than my education going to waste, I am simply bored with this job.

Late 20's huh? You're bored because you don't appreciate it. You haven't seen the worst of this business yet. Have a little gratitude there junior. ;)

I'm mid-forties and part of that "lost decade" where the only folks hiring were basically fractionals and low-end charter companies. The airlines were trickle hiring but rare.

I think it's time you create another account. You weren't hired at United and I highly doubt you went to any university.

Do you actually believe your lies? :rolleyes:

Your just envious. There is no need to lie on an anonymous forum where none of us will ever meet. Maybe this forum means a lot to you and consumes your entire life. You should try getting some pu$&y. It's good for your health.

Quite the conceit and chutzpah there, mate. Hopefully you survive it.

As for whether it gets better, that may be subjective, but I've been flying for a wee bit longer than you, and I can say that it's gotten far better in the long run, and it continues to do so.

Your comments are reflective of a very low time regional f/o with no other experience; I very much doubt you're at United. Perhaps you count code sharing. Your posts smack of a great deal of immaturity. Your opinion of yourself may well exceed reality.

--just noted the poster to whom I replied has since been banned. Ah, well.

Thank you for proving my point!! Pathetic soul:rolleyes:

It's "you're" MIT boy. *wink*

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Ask those who got out if they want back in.

It is "you're." Yes, get the MBA.

Count me as a 'No' if we're starting a poll.

I personally think being worth a bit less than my counterparts come reirement age is worth the time I will have spent watching my children grow up. All that money may be awfully lonesome come retirement age, or maybe not, but one lifestyle is definitely more prone to a harder home life.

To the OP... If you don't like the travel now, you certainly won't tolerate it if/when you have a wife and family. The lifelong airline types here heavily identify themselves with their profession, thus some of the responses you have received.

I'm not telling you to walk away, but the fact that you're looking for validation to do so tells me you probably should. No sense in being miserable in your career just because you're doing what others think is right for you.

It's your life, do what you want.

No dog in this fight, BUT, IF you're willing to write off intl widebody flying from the income and career expectations of an airline job, the bolded above is then entirely within the realm of possibilities. I've watched peers do just that by staying narrowbody domestic. They're not on food stamps. Not every airline pilot is chasing the money. I'm actually glad most are chasing the dollar, it leaves some interesting niches within the seniority list to be able to maximize QOL in almost pedestrian-job levels, if you're willing to leave money on the table.

Of course, the question is, what's going to happen when flags of convenience destroy widebody payscales in the US, and everybody then retreat to narrowbody flying, effectively killing the lucrative nature to the career. At that point your assertion would stand; i.e. if you're gonna work for regional CA wages as a senior domestic mainline CA, you might as well do it at the post office and be home every night. But that's not here *yet*. So I'm inclined to still offer up my original point.

This was gonna be a really long post, but the truth is you just have to find what works for you...if you feel really passionate about LEO work, it'd be something I'd check out! If you get out and find that you really miss flying (even after instructing on the side) then you'll have a better frame of reference to make your decision.

The truth is, life is going to keep going...you're going to get older every day, month, and year..and the longer you keep putting off what you're wanting the longer you'll be wondering about what could have been. I'm not telling you to just jump at the first thing that's placed infront of you...but you owe it to yourself to find out what it is that you want to do, and what provides you a sense of satisfaction in your daily life. And that doesn't mean you'll run from one awesome job, to another awesome job...there will be hiccups and stumbles along the path, just try to learn something from each situation, and make the call that's right for YOU! :) Happy hunting!

I was a USMC fighter pilot and just retired after 29 years from a big 3 company as a Little bus captain. I quit because the job now sucks. You have to get doctors note when you are sick, ask permission to pee, work 13 to 14 hour days. You sit around crappy airports all day then go to Fargo for a layover. When I first started we had a ball. Now after 29 years I was halfway up the airbus list flying crap .

The pay for what we have to do is really low, but management pays themselves a lot. You are basically a cost to the company. They would fly drones if they could get away with it. There is a reason there is a pilot shortage. It's because it sucks. Get out while you are young while you can . Btw you get 2 bucks an hour per diem. Might get you a. Burger in JFK

I think about leaving quite frequently and posts like this are always eye-opening. Consider, though, how much the managers at your Big Three airline are making. Maybe I'm off, but it seems like those in various analyst to middle-management type positions are making around $90k to $170k. Probably intellectually challenging work, but also long hours, weekend emails, bosses, stress, etc. Maybe flying does suck compared to when you started, but I bet it was still an easy job that you didn't have to take home with you, and you were probably making more than those managers just to show up, fly around and go home. I guess that's my hang up, leaving now probably means lower pay over a career, and with saving, retirement, etc. in mind, starting over from zero is tough to swallow.

Kinda in the same boat as you. This is my second shot at it. I'm in my late 30's and married with 2 kids. I love the flying part of it and even the travel benefits. Unfortunately you have to deal with everything else that comes with the life. I've been back in the cockpit for 6 months now and have been questioning it since I got here. It gets harder with the wife and kids especially when you take a $70k pay cut to do this. I know everyone says it will pay off but I will make the same money at a desk job in 10 years as an airline captain plus not to mention the $$ I missed out on in the next 5 years. This job is not for everyone, and I commend those that stick with it as a career. As for me, I like being home every night and having my routine with the kids. I don't gripe in the cockpit though because I don't like to bring my colleagues down and I know their situation is different. You're still young, try other things.

I was in your same situation
 

and I had your same feelings at the beginning of my career. I am writing to you from Europe, so I know that in terms of pilot lifestyle is a little bit different than from USA, but I hope to help you. While getting my ATPL at the age of 22 I got a degree in civil engineering and worked in corporate while being part time flying instructor (very part time: only twice, sometime once per week). I had my first job on an Embraer E175 at the age of 24 for the regional subsidiary of a national airline. I really hated it. Compared to the office job that I had before it was really really bad. After approximately 1 year and half I apply and got a job as a FO on the A320 on the mainline. I am based at the same base and fly to many of the airports that I used to fly, but it is a complitely different world. I would never come back to regional as well to corporate. What I strongly recommend is to hold on for a while more. Talking with many of my collegues I found out that disappointment and doing a job different from what you expected to do are common quotes. Everything change after a while

Personally, I think the problem appears that you are seeking some kind of life satisfaction in the front end of an airliner.

If that's the case, you won't find it. Ever.

I all ready had a 20-year career in the military where I was able to be intellectually and physically challenged, go on adventures, have excitement, worked on something that I believed had a purpose and where I thought I could make a difference -- all the stuff that you're seeking out in your job. I also spent a huge amount of time away from my family, and even when I was "at home", I had so much invested in what was going on at work, I never really spent much actual quality time with my family.

It was only after leaving the military that I realized what an empty pursuit it was to seek life fulfillment in my job.

So, now that I've crossed over into the airline flying world, I've realized that this job isn't about what you do for a living. Quite the opposite. This job is about the off-duty lifestyle that the schedule and money (eventually) allows you to have. Yes, there are lean years of less money and more work at the beginning...but that is all an investment on a bigger payoff down the road.

Even at a regional job I was commuting to, I had more quality time at home than I ever did in the military. When I'm at home, I'm 100% at home and there's no intrusion of work into my life. I can take the kids to school, go to lunch with my wife, do whatever hobbies make me happy, and not even think about work until next week or whenever I have to go back.

My recommendation is to stick with the airlines, but have you thought about joining the reserve military on the side? Have you pursued other interesting avenues of flying? Go learn aerobatics, or do some formation flying, or learn how to fly a big taildragger, or get a seaplane rating, or fly gliders....If you are looking for flying things that are satisfying achievements, you're going to have to look somewhere outside the airlines. And, interestingly enough, being an airline pilot will afford you the time and money to go chase these things to keep you excited!

Hacker is right. You can have it all, but not all at the same time. :)

I think part of the problem is getting caught up in the idea that airlines are the be all and end all; they certainly pay well, but I found in my own career that the bigger the airplane, the less I enjoyed it. When I started flying corporate, I wondered why anyone would do anything else - it was so nice going to the other side of the airport in a spotless aircraft (and that difference is even more striking post '911). Point is, there are a lot of ways to make a living in aviation, so maybe consider a different lane on the same highway.
If you do quit, I think you'll find flying is a hard game to walk away from - it's got that mystique about it still, "Oooh, you're a pilot?!" Your ego will take a beating, but there are a lot of careers out there that may be more fulfilling for you if you have the courage to leave the "romance" of flying (lol) behind and become a "civilian" again.

Funny, over 10 years into the career and a few years into my current regional airline I still like the job itself, but being on the road, commuting and my current situation involving an investigation into a mishandled equipment malfunction that doesn’t threaten my job but will probably end up in my PRIA record has me thinking of a career change.

I want to leave this country anyway, far-right nationalists and an insane, narcissistic clown as president are making a society that already had few redeeming qualities far-worse. Not sure where I’d go, maybe get an electrical engineering degree and start designing solar systems for a developing country? Not only is renewable energy what must pragmatically done to save the planet, it has virtually unlimited growth potential. Strong inclination to go from a job that involved dumping tons of CO2 into the atmosphere to one that helps solve our global problems. If I want to scratch the aviation itch I can always fly an ultralight or sailplane on my days off.

Then leave.... And please take Alec Baldwin, Meryl Streep, and all the other snowflakes with you..... I hear Europe is quite the Utopia

Biggest motivation not to leave would be people like you would like it to much. ;)

Love the irony of these two statements being back to back.

Good luck in your search.

There's a reason why refugees and immigrants come to the US, rather than the other way around.

There are countries significantly more messed up then the US. There are also countries significantly less.

Well, 18 months has gone by since this post, care to re-evaluate your country’s commander and chief without resorting to childish name calling?

Your country’s democracy is broken. And it all happened on Trumps watch. Or should I say the party of Lincoln and Reagan’s watch.

Sad.

You must be really bored and bitter to revive this... Can’t blame the original intent of the Republican Party... Our current predicament may be based on partisan politics, but this is in no way what the presidents you mentioned intended. As for democracy and the current state of the US, yes, it’s quite broken. May whatever country you choose to speak from be in a better place! Way to revive a dead thread with troll-ish motives...

Well, one whole month has gone by since you joined the forum. Care to re-evaluate APC’s rule against political posts? :rolleyes:

So, how about those Bears...?

DA Bears!


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I feel your pain
 

Same here man same here