Originally Posted by iceman49

Tacky on my part: Lost pensions would have bought a lot of shiny shoes. If the non rev look reasonable; are behaved bring them on board. I guess what is reasonable is subject to debate.

Originally Posted by OneEyedMonster

Exactly correct. The airline model has changed substantially over the last 30 years but we want to romanticize air travel as the luxury it was in the Clipper days. Its public transportation now, sorry if thats hard to grasp.

Originally Posted by NonRevBallin

My dad is a L-AAL 787 captain and my mom is a L-UAL 767 captain. That being said, I grew up non-reving around the world on both of these airlines with the old non-rev rules (on both airlines) where you had to wear shiny shoes to sit in first class (which, before the free upgrade culture used to be the only seats available). I think it's nothing short of a disgrace that the standards regarding attire for non-rev travel have been reduced (if not entirely eliminated on some carriers). I personally will never tolerate my significant other or children (if I have them) to wear leggings in public, let alone when non-reving. To this day, I still dress in business casual when I travel (positive space or standby), because it speaks volumes about you as a person before you even introduce yourself, and I have the utmost respect for the big three airlines. I'm not an East Coast suit guy, but business casual is more than appropriate and comfortable. People are lazy slobs nowadays and don't realize how you used to have to dress to fly on an airline (or to go in public in general) irrespective if you were positive space or not. Don't even get me started on pilots who want to have beards. I know, I know, the 1950s called me and said that they want their airline back. Sorry for the rant, I'm just very passionate about this subject and hope that UAL doesn't go down the same path as AAL with regards to non-rev attire.

Originally Posted by OneEyedMonster

Exactly correct. The airline model has changed substantially over the last 30 years but we want to romanticize air travel as the luxury it was in the Clipper days. Its public transportation now, sorry if thats hard to grasp.

Originally Posted by OneEyedMonster

Swimming up stream on this one. Trying to act like air travel is still a "suit and tie" affair is simple a fools errand.

Want people to "dress the part," make the service they receive is "the part" as well. You can go from white linen service of the 1960s to Biscoff and a water today, and expect things to not change,

Originally Posted by thevagabond

Yeah okay bro. I guess that expecting people not to put their hairy legs up against mine for six hours is being ovely romantic for the past. As is expecting people not to clip their f'ing toenails and put them in the seatback pocket next to mine. Or putting their bare feet up on the bulkhead wall. It doesn't have to be a Clipper Ship to expect people to behave with the barest amount of decency and good manners.

Originally Posted by OneEyedMonster

Just reinforced my point. Crammed in so tight you're up against the legs of the passenger next to you, and the passenger across from you bought his ticket on Travelocity for $200 and thinks toenail clipping is encouraged on the flight. This is what air travel is now, its crap.

And that bulkhead, well the airlines now charge how much for the middle seat up there? So yeah, people will throw their feet up while paying a premium for that "premium seat". Airlines squeeze passengers and passengers treat the airline like trash. This is the reality.

Manners? How many passengers fire up their cell phones on landing and have a conversation loud enough for the cabin to hear? How many have that conversation on the taxi out and disregard the Fas telling them no phones? People bringing stank McDonalds on the plane, scarfing it down, and then blowing up the lav. Manners.

Manners are not something I would expect to see coming back in commercial air travel any time soon. I would expect it to get worse. You will long for hairy legs and nail clippings in 20 years.