Calling go-around from the jumpseat
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: MD-11 FO
Posts: 2,178
How long was the runway and what was the airport? Were they flying a visual off the papi's or flying the glideslope? I've seen the papi's and glideslope to be off half a dot at times that low. A short runway with obstacles at the end would be a different situation than a super long one with no obstacles. A lot of unknown variables to say I would speak up at 400' agl, possibly making an undesirable situation even more dangerous.
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 39
Would you call unstable approach on a visual approach if the crew was 10 feet high at 200 agl? That would be 3 white and red on the papi's.
#23
At some point....common sense needs to kick in.
I know that some of the guys that live in simulators would disagree.
As far as the original post, a jump seater should speak up if things get dangerous...but you better make sure you know what you're talking about! I'm not going to sit there and watch the plane crash (a la Asiana pilots in SFO).
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 1,681
Go ahead.
Start calling commands from a jumpseat. I bet you will hear about it.
If this sort of thing makes sense to you, don't ever ride on any airline jumpseat.
Come ride on mine and start with commands. We'll see how many jumpseats you ever get to ride on again.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,941
Granted, it would take A LOT to get me to say something about anyone's approach especially on another airline's jumpseat but if I know for sure the aircraft is in a dangerous state, I'm going to say something. I don't care if it hurts your fragile ego.
#28
Layover Master
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Position: Seated
Posts: 4,309
I've coughed really loudly as we blew through 10,000ft at 320kts once.... they got the message, but no one said thank you.
Another time I watched a crew select speed mode for a climb without advancing the thrust levers in Class B airspace at 6,000ft... we started descending at 1,500fpm, and lost 500ft.
I've seen improper use of lights several times (no strobes, leaving beacon on, etc).
I've seen blown crossing restrictions.
And best of all... I've seen ALL of that on the same flight.
Another time I watched a crew select speed mode for a climb without advancing the thrust levers in Class B airspace at 6,000ft... we started descending at 1,500fpm, and lost 500ft.
I've seen improper use of lights several times (no strobes, leaving beacon on, etc).
I've seen blown crossing restrictions.
And best of all... I've seen ALL of that on the same flight.
#29
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 532
Wait, so you're going to make me look for traffic but if something happens that is life threatening, I'm supposed to sit and grin?
Granted, it would take A LOT to get me to say something about anyone's approach especially on another airline's jumpseat but if I know for sure the aircraft is in a dangerous state, I'm going to say something. I don't care if it hurts your fragile ego.
Granted, it would take A LOT to get me to say something about anyone's approach especially on another airline's jumpseat but if I know for sure the aircraft is in a dangerous state, I'm going to say something. I don't care if it hurts your fragile ego.
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,941
Don't take it so literally. Of course speak up for life-threatening or certificate-violating situations, but calling a go-around is overstepping. Even a third or fourth operating crew member in the observer seat calling for a go-around would get you a "what the hell are you doing?" unless certain death is imminent.
Second, I never said to just start calling "go around" because you're a little unstable. But I have said, "um, I'm pretty sure he said 12,000 not 14,000." As long as you are professional about it, most crews appreciate the help.
And just to be clear, I wouldn't have called GA in the scenario presented. I don't think a dot high at 400 feet is enough for me to get involved, especially on a long runway. Now, full scale, power idle on a short runway? I'd probably say something to the Captain.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post