Pax vs Cargo Retirement
06-28-2017, 09:57 AM
#21
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
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Originally Posted by fly4unclesam
I agree. While I really do appreciate all the comments and all are valid in the decision making process, not one of them actually answered the question. "Pax vs Cargo" could be discussed and debated from now until the end of time...I was simply interested in who offers the best retirement plan for a pilot starting later in life with only 15 to 20 years left until age 65.
1- Dont see either defaulting on their plans anytime soon, but Id always worry about it. Rather have pension in my own name.
2- Retirement planning is critical, but truthfully retirement plan would be low on my list of concerns when making a chiice. Very low. Too much can change between beginning and end of career. Location/commuting would be first on my list. Maybe not yours
07-01-2017, 05:38 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by Sputnik
Dont have an answer, Id do the math yourself. Two thoughts
1- Dont see either defaulting on their plans anytime soon, but Id always worry about it. Rather have pension in my own name.
2- Retirement planning is critical, but truthfully retirement plan would be low on my list of concerns when making a chiice. Very low. Too much can change between beginning and end of career. Location/commuting would be first on my list. Maybe not yours
1- Dont see either defaulting on their plans anytime soon, but Id always worry about it. Rather have pension in my own name.
2- Retirement planning is critical, but truthfully retirement plan would be low on my list of concerns when making a chiice. Very low. Too much can change between beginning and end of career. Location/commuting would be first on my list. Maybe not yours
07-01-2017, 08:05 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Always Fly With Favorite Captain
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by fly4unclesam
Just curious what everyone thinks about the "pax vs cargo" decision for a retiring military pilot (mid to late 40s) when it comes to the value of the retirement packages?
Seems like the major pax airlines all offer a 15-16% B Plan with a "cash over the cap" provision. Additionally, many offer profit sharing. Both FedEx and UPS offer an A Plan and a 8 or 12% B Plan but with no "cash over the cap" provision and no profit sharing.
For the purposes of this discussion, all I want to look at is the value of the retirement plans for a pilot starting in their mid to late 40s. Assume everything else is equal...only look at the value of the retirement plans. Assume average rates of return for the B Plan investments.
My assumption is that the "cargo retirement model" is more valuable for a pilot starting in their mid to late 40s since they have fewer years to accumulate B Plan monies...but that is just my assumption. Has anyone done any research on this?
Thanks
Seems like the major pax airlines all offer a 15-16% B Plan with a "cash over the cap" provision. Additionally, many offer profit sharing. Both FedEx and UPS offer an A Plan and a 8 or 12% B Plan but with no "cash over the cap" provision and no profit sharing.
For the purposes of this discussion, all I want to look at is the value of the retirement plans for a pilot starting in their mid to late 40s. Assume everything else is equal...only look at the value of the retirement plans. Assume average rates of return for the B Plan investments.
My assumption is that the "cargo retirement model" is more valuable for a pilot starting in their mid to late 40s since they have fewer years to accumulate B Plan monies...but that is just my assumption. Has anyone done any research on this?
Thanks
I don't have the numbers to provide for you, but I definitely recall that the airlines that were more heavily weighted towards pensions (A Fund) were "better" for the 15 to 20 year careers. For the airlines more heavily weighted towards defined contributions (B Fund), they definitely started moving up some notches after 25 years. The airlines that did the best overall had provisions for both pension (A Fund), and DC Plan (B Fund).
As things stand now, every major passenger airline has either frozen, or terminated their pensions. Meaning no pension for new hires, only B Fund, plus maybe a 401K match. Best wishes towards your new career.
07-01-2017, 05:46 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
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Posts: 2,072
Originally Posted by itsmytime
You must be 25. As you reach your mid 40's, retirement climbs much higher on your list.
Obviously I didnt express myself well.
Contracts come and go. Corp. bankrupcys happen. Generally speaking, pensions are a thing of the past. I would be reluctant to go to a job with a pension plan. I'd assume it would disappear before or soon after I retired. But thats me.
I like 401k plans, mainly because I havent figured out how I will be screwed out of it yet. A year ago DL put 15% in, now it's 16. What do the rest offer? Whst will it be in 5 years? Who knows?
I am borderline obsessed with my personal retirement planning. I do think there is huge uncertainty in airline contracts, and overall industry stability. With that in mind, I personally would not weight retirement plans heavily when considering where to work. Long term way too much uncertainty there.
If I had a choice of commuting or not, wouldnt even look at retirement plans.
My opinion only. Ask me in 17 years if I was right.
07-05-2017, 02:44 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,544
Go to whichever one allows you to be home based. Enjoy all the extra days off you have because you drive to work. While your captain is running to catch his commute, you'll just smile, stroll out to your car, and drive home!
My guess is wherever you end up, you'll sing the praises of the side you chose. I ended up at DAL because I live within 50 minutes drive of one of their largest, and most junior bases. I sit short call from my patio. I'm about to go to the WB because I see how little my buddies go to work and sit reserve at their house. If I lived near MEM/SDF, I'd have tried hard for FedEx/UPS.
Sorry, can't add much to the pension discussion. My family is littered with lost pensions so my trust in them is very low. If I had ended up at FedEx, I'd probably be talking about how awesome and safe they are...I'd just be doing everything I could, to get it in my name.
My guess is wherever you end up, you'll sing the praises of the side you chose. I ended up at DAL because I live within 50 minutes drive of one of their largest, and most junior bases. I sit short call from my patio. I'm about to go to the WB because I see how little my buddies go to work and sit reserve at their house. If I lived near MEM/SDF, I'd have tried hard for FedEx/UPS.
Sorry, can't add much to the pension discussion. My family is littered with lost pensions so my trust in them is very low. If I had ended up at FedEx, I'd probably be talking about how awesome and safe they are...I'd just be doing everything I could, to get it in my name.
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