Senate panel votes to weaken Flight 3407 safe
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: A-320
Posts: 1,122
They are trying to place blame on fatigue, low pilot hours, breaking sterile flight deck, FO inexperience....basically everything except the fact that the captain had a history of unsatisfactory performance and had no business being in command.
#22
And this is where the unions really shine and do good work.... on matters of safety. If the company is trying to get you to do something unsafe, don't, and tell them to talk to your rep.
#23
As to why the focus has possibly shifted away from the guy's failed checkrides, what about all the accidents where a person has zero busts? I'm not suggesting that a pilot should be going to EVERY ride then failing is ok, but what's more important is their actions on the day of the accident. The Colgan accident was very preventable.
I've heard stories from people taking their private pilot checkride with a DPE, who flew from their local airport to some place with a restaurant for lunch then flying back. No oral, no maneuvers per the PTS at the time (now ACS). Given that bit of information you have to consider where the training was conducted to determine if the checks are actually being done to the correct standards.
I also remember one person in my first 121 gig boasting about never having pinked in his training at ATP, yet he couldn't track a VOR...so he got sent home.
Long story short, the quality of the training (checking) matters as do the activities in the time a pilot takes to qualify for an airline. I think 1500 hours or ATP qualifications gives the pilot time to build ADM. Hopefully it's not wasted by flying in circles.
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,539
Under the proposed change, experience at unaccredited flight schools, or training programs offered by the airlines, would for the first time be able to count toward the 1,500 hours requirement.
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Port Bus
Posts: 725
While I'm sure everyone can agree that the Colgan accident was poor airmanship, both the captain and first officer were responsible. The first officer should have spoken up, or even taken the controls from the captain. Unfortunately the FO was inexperienced and also poorly educated on tailplane icing. She brought the flaps up which made the situation worse.
As to why the focus has possibly shifted away from the guy's failed checkrides, what about all the accidents where a person has zero busts? I'm not suggesting that a pilot should be going to EVERY ride then failing is ok, but what's more important is their actions on the day of the accident. The Colgan accident was very preventable.
I've heard stories from people taking their private pilot checkride with a DPE, who flew from their local airport to some place with a restaurant for lunch then flying back. No oral, no maneuvers per the PTS at the time (now ACS). Given that bit of information you have to consider where the training was conducted to determine if the checks are actually being done to the correct standards.
I also remember one person in my first 121 gig boasting about never having pinked in his training at ATP, yet he couldn't track a VOR...so he got sent home.
Long story short, the quality of the training (checking) matters as do the activities in the time a pilot takes to qualify for an airline. I think 1500 hours or ATP qualifications gives the pilot time to build ADM. Hopefully it's not wasted by flying in circles.
As to why the focus has possibly shifted away from the guy's failed checkrides, what about all the accidents where a person has zero busts? I'm not suggesting that a pilot should be going to EVERY ride then failing is ok, but what's more important is their actions on the day of the accident. The Colgan accident was very preventable.
I've heard stories from people taking their private pilot checkride with a DPE, who flew from their local airport to some place with a restaurant for lunch then flying back. No oral, no maneuvers per the PTS at the time (now ACS). Given that bit of information you have to consider where the training was conducted to determine if the checks are actually being done to the correct standards.
I also remember one person in my first 121 gig boasting about never having pinked in his training at ATP, yet he couldn't track a VOR...so he got sent home.
Long story short, the quality of the training (checking) matters as do the activities in the time a pilot takes to qualify for an airline. I think 1500 hours or ATP qualifications gives the pilot time to build ADM. Hopefully it's not wasted by flying in circles.
The Colgan crash had absolutely nothing to do with icing of any sort. The Captain stalled the plane and the FO further F'd things up by screwing with the flaps.
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: 7th green
Posts: 4,378
I've had it in a CV-580. If the two Colgan pilots misidentified the stall as tailplane icing then they applied the wrong corrective actions. Since they're both dead, there's no way to know what they were thinking, but in tailplane icing the first action is to bring the flaps up.
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
#28
Flying from JFK to Vegas at 6am eastern, then 11 hours later flying back to JFK. How do you manage sleep on that one?
You don't bid those trips. Or as previously mentioned, you call in fatigued whenever you are truly fatigued.
You don't bid those trips. Or as previously mentioned, you call in fatigued whenever you are truly fatigued.
We don't have these at NK, at least not in my base. We do have something similar though, where we fly a redeye one night, followed by a 6AM departure the next day. Absolutely brutal. I too believe in "When it causes a fatigue problem, only then will it get fixed." Unfortunately for the cause, I simply use my seniority to bid around them. It's up to others to call in fatigued. (At least until I upgrade. Then I'll probably get loads of them.)
#29
There is something even better right around the corner than weakening the 1500 rule to boost pilot recruitment and make them see past the incredible sacrifices of the lifestyle:
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/top-gun-seq...051847297.html
An entire new generation of pilots will go nuts and in debt to be part of the lifestyle!
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/top-gun-seq...051847297.html
An entire new generation of pilots will go nuts and in debt to be part of the lifestyle!
#30
What you all seem to be forgetting is the High Priority training issue that cycle was tailplane icing. Take a look at the NASA video on YouTube about tailplane icing and see what the recovery is.
I've had it in a CV-580. If the two Colgan pilots misidentified the stall as tailplane icing then they applied the wrong corrective actions. Since they're both dead, there's no way to know what they were thinking, but in tailplane icing the first action is to bring the flaps up.
I've had it in a CV-580. If the two Colgan pilots misidentified the stall as tailplane icing then they applied the wrong corrective actions. Since they're both dead, there's no way to know what they were thinking, but in tailplane icing the first action is to bring the flaps up.
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