Hand Flying policy
11-12-2017, 04:40 AM
#111
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Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Port Bus
Posts: 725
Originally Posted by at6d
I was under the impression that both seats in the AF crash had opposite control inputs for most of the duration of the incident (which correct me since I know zero of Airbus stuff causes a different control mode?) ...and at one point had the aircraft in an attitude where recovery was possible, only to re-induce the attitude and descent rate of the initial situation which ultimately led to the demise.
11-12-2017, 02:39 PM
#112
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Seat 0B
Posts: 2,300
Originally Posted by ExperimentalAB
The problem here is the idea that we need to "brief the other guy" before hand-flying. That right there shows that the preferred and normal course of ops is using all the automation; it makes us look like mavericks when we click it off - an outrageous idea given our ultimate, professional duty to be masters of our craft.
11-12-2017, 05:17 PM
#113
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,261
Originally Posted by ItnStln
The relief FO had 2,936 hours and he was the pilot flying.
In another thread here someone posted a similar issue with Northwest where the pilots were able to recover from the incident. I'm not sure how closely related the two incidents are but from the way I read the post they were very similar except the Northwest crew was able to recover from the incident.
In another thread here someone posted a similar issue with Northwest where the pilots were able to recover from the incident. I'm not sure how closely related the two incidents are but from the way I read the post they were very similar except the Northwest crew was able to recover from the incident.
11-12-2017, 05:17 PM
#114
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Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
Originally Posted by TheFly
No, if you are planning to fly hand-fly half a STAR, and it’s going to create a higher workload for the guy sitting next to you then you should give him a heads up. Let’s be real, it’s an uncommon practice.
An ability to fly the airplane comfortably and routinely (not feeling like you're pulling off some Herculean feat) is supposed to be our basic competency as pilots.
11-12-2017, 05:50 PM
#115
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Seat 0B
Posts: 2,300
Originally Posted by vessbot
I don't think he meant hand flying STARs. Sometimes I get made to feel like some sort of cowboy or showoff when I hand fly sooner than localizer intercept, and that to me is bizarre.
An ability to fly the airplane comfortably and routinely (not feeling like you're pulling off some Herculean feat) is supposed to be our basic competency as pilots.
An ability to fly the airplane comfortably and routinely (not feeling like you're pulling off some Herculean feat) is supposed to be our basic competency as pilots.
11-12-2017, 06:48 PM
#116
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The NW crew did not have to recover anything. They simply flew the aircraft.
11-13-2017, 04:21 AM
#118
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,191
Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp
Yup. I did the guy's recurrent who was PF during the incident. When it happened, he just held her level, same power setting and about 2.5 degrees of pitch. about the time they started to figure out what was going on, everything recovered. Which is exactly what would have happened with AF447 had he not pitched to 17 degrees up (!!!!) at FL350.
2.5 degrees NU and current cruise power setting buys you a lot of time in all airliners.
11-13-2017, 06:54 AM
#120
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Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,723
Originally Posted by TheFly
No, if you are planning to fly hand-fly half a STAR, and it’s going to create a higher workload for the guy sitting next to you then you should give him a heads up. Let’s be real, it’s an uncommon practice.
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