Hand Flying policy
10-08-2017, 07:09 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: 767A (Ret)
Posts: 6,248
Originally Posted by HalinTexas
As an instructor on the B737 and having flown it with 6 airlines in four countries, I generally find that those that complain about 737 automation don't know how to use it. Sometimes, it's the company's fault for not adequately teaching it. Mostly, it's the pilot's fault for not trying to learn it.
10-08-2017, 08:04 AM
#32
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Originally Posted by tomgoodman
True geezers will remember when the floor of Positive Control Airspace was 18,000 east of Sedalia KS, and somewhat higher west of there, probably because of radar coverage limitations.
GF
10-08-2017, 08:24 AM
#33
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
I knew Sperry invented the first practical autopilot. Here's an excerpt explaining the origin of "George." (I had thought, incorrectly, that Sperry's given name was George):
Turns out he died a few years later, trying to cross the English Channel on a foggy/overcast day, relying on his autopilot.
And, a humorous anecdote:
Some things never change....
The first man to fly in a Sperry autopilot aircraft, Navy Lt. Patrick N. L. Bellinger, would go on to pilot the Curtiss NC-1 for the world’s first successful trans-Atlantic crossing in 1918. Over the years, Bellinger and many other pilots would take to calling the Sperry Autopilot system “George” — a colloquialism for the seemingly magical, invisible copilot that had joined them in the cockpit of their aircraft. To this day, the term “George” is used unofficially to represent the autopilot system.
Turns out he died a few years later, trying to cross the English Channel on a foggy/overcast day, relying on his autopilot.
Sperry took off into the fog for a crossing of the English Channel on December 23, 1923 — no doubt, he planned on relying on his autopilot to get him through. He never arrived in France for his Christmas holiday. It wasn’t until three weeks later, on January 11, 1924, that his remains were found floating in the English Channel. It was a sad end for a truly extraordinary aviator and inventor.
And, a humorous anecdote:
Lawrence Sperry was known as quite a ladies’ man and had a penchant for wild parties — he was single, handsome and wealthy, a potent combination. Even there, his autopilot had a role — and one day in November 1916 he demonstrated his trust in the system when he took a married socialite, Mrs. Waldo Polk, for a training flight offshore near Babylon, New York. Turning over the controls to his autopilot, the two proceeded to engage in something of an aerial tryst. Mrs. Polk’s husband was away in France volunteering for France as an ambulance driver during the war, leaving her “unattended” and, with the wealthy Lawrence Sperry close at hand, she decided to take up flying lessons.
The day didn’t end well when Sperry accidentally bumped the gyro platform while “involved” with Mrs. Polk. The seaplane then flew a descending curve dictated by the misaligned gyro instead of staying on course. It crashed into the waters of the bay. Luckily, two duck hunters were nearby and paddled over to rescue the naked pair. Initially, Sperry maintained that the force of impact had ripped off their clothes. However, his reputation as something of a playboy led one tabloid to run the more accurate headline, “AERIAL PETTING – ENDS IN WETTING”. Later, Sperry would confide to a friend that the story was accurate. Mrs. Polk ultimately qualified for her pilot certificate — without any further autopilot incidents.
The day didn’t end well when Sperry accidentally bumped the gyro platform while “involved” with Mrs. Polk. The seaplane then flew a descending curve dictated by the misaligned gyro instead of staying on course. It crashed into the waters of the bay. Luckily, two duck hunters were nearby and paddled over to rescue the naked pair. Initially, Sperry maintained that the force of impact had ripped off their clothes. However, his reputation as something of a playboy led one tabloid to run the more accurate headline, “AERIAL PETTING – ENDS IN WETTING”. Later, Sperry would confide to a friend that the story was accurate. Mrs. Polk ultimately qualified for her pilot certificate — without any further autopilot incidents.
10-08-2017, 08:51 AM
#34
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by galaxy flyer
And us true geezers call it by the correct name—PCA. And the New York TCA.
GF
GF
But although I cannot recall the exact timing of the promulgation of TCA's (as PCA) I do know that I was flying into both New York and Chicago in the late 60's with NO clearance.
I also remember the FAA trying several times to introduce TCA's and finally succeeding by timing the comment period over the holidays. There was even a newspaper article at the time comparing the mail going to the FAA as comparable to mail going in to the North Pole. Each circumstance generated less than the desired outcome.
10-08-2017, 08:52 AM
#35
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Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 676
Originally Posted by HalinTexas
As an instructor on the B737 and having flown it with 6 airlines in four countries, I generally find that those that complain about 737 automation don't know how to use it. Sometimes, it's the company's fault for not adequately teaching it. Mostly, it's the pilot's fault for not trying to learn it.
My reference to the 737 involved it's finesse. not it's capabilities. As Slice mentioned, there are ways to fly "George" smoother. If they could somehow smooth out the autothrottles, it would seem to improve 75% of the rough edges. Watching an autopilot trim 5 turns down then 5 turns up within 1 second leads me to believe the programming budget was cut at Boeing or even worse, sub contracted the job across the street to Microsoft.
As for hand flying, despite my earlier comments, I'm not hand flying through 150 miles of +/- altitude and variable speed gates on a STAR, or blasted tired at the end of a long day. It will vary on conditions of course.
10-08-2017, 09:09 AM
#36
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 18
Reminds me of old story;
Flying in to O'hare late 60's (No clearance)
Me to tower: Comanche Triple 1 Pop, landing O'hare with xxxx
Tower: Comanche Tripe 1 Pop, have you ever heard of a VFR holding pattern?
Me: No Sir
Tower: Do you see that Howard Johnson's over there with the orange roof about 3 miles NE?
Me: Yes Sir
Tower: Well you go hang around over there till I call you back.
Me: Yes Sir
Flying in to O'hare late 60's (No clearance)
Me to tower: Comanche Triple 1 Pop, landing O'hare with xxxx
Tower: Comanche Tripe 1 Pop, have you ever heard of a VFR holding pattern?
Me: No Sir
Tower: Do you see that Howard Johnson's over there with the orange roof about 3 miles NE?
Me: Yes Sir
Tower: Well you go hang around over there till I call you back.
Me: Yes Sir
10-08-2017, 09:47 AM
#37
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Posts: 24
Originally Posted by Dolphinflyer
Totally agree, amazed at a couple of other posts, but not surprised given the weak arse finesse skills that I've witnessed from the right and left seats over 25+ years of legacy flying.
Let's cover one for example, energy management. From what I've seen in the cockpit, I doubt 75% of this group could estimate a point to pull the throttles to idle at FL390 and glide without touching the throttles to a 3K-2K Flap extension point at the destination without emailing Kit Darby for a follow up Hug/Spoon Session on GoGo Internet.
Another mentioned the 737 autopilot. This one has me amazed. From experience, a worthy adversary in flying skills without a brain were the 777/767/757 autopilots. The 737? YGBSM. That piece of east European programmed garbage is less smooth than if I tied 4 kinds of sausages to each side of the yoke and each throttle and had my Yellow Lab attempt to fly it. Seriously dude, congratulations if your intent was a troll job, but other than that, really?
IMHO, the idea is to have the passengers not have a clue to what phase of flight they are in between gear up and gear down. The 737 Autopilot? I think an Aztec AP might be smoother.
Let's cover one for example, energy management. From what I've seen in the cockpit, I doubt 75% of this group could estimate a point to pull the throttles to idle at FL390 and glide without touching the throttles to a 3K-2K Flap extension point at the destination without emailing Kit Darby for a follow up Hug/Spoon Session on GoGo Internet.
Another mentioned the 737 autopilot. This one has me amazed. From experience, a worthy adversary in flying skills without a brain were the 777/767/757 autopilots. The 737? YGBSM. That piece of east European programmed garbage is less smooth than if I tied 4 kinds of sausages to each side of the yoke and each throttle and had my Yellow Lab attempt to fly it. Seriously dude, congratulations if your intent was a troll job, but other than that, really?
IMHO, the idea is to have the passengers not have a clue to what phase of flight they are in between gear up and gear down. The 737 Autopilot? I think an Aztec AP might be smoother.
10-09-2017, 06:44 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 85
Originally Posted by PotatoChip
Autopilot - RNAV departures, IMC approaches, I'm tired.
Off - "Cleared for the visual". Climbing usually to about 10,000, unless I'm just flying straight to a fix 80 miles away.
That about covers it.
Off - "Cleared for the visual". Climbing usually to about 10,000, unless I'm just flying straight to a fix 80 miles away.
That about covers it.
10-09-2017, 09:47 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2014
Posts: 1,681
Originally Posted by ecam
I hand fly the Airbus as much as I can. Usually up to 10,000, then as soon as cleared for the visual approach for sure. One of the best flying planes I've flown actually. A joy to hand fly.
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