WhiskeyDelta

You are correct. It’s cut and dry. Once the brake is set and if you have not been notified of any additional flying, your FDP is over and you need 10 hours minimum of rest before starting another FDP. One key thing is you have to be notified prior to brakes set. It can’t be assigned and then get the notification post setting of the brakes.

CBreezy

This isn't true. According to a 2014 interpretation:.

Scenario 1
A pilot has operated a single round trip (twoflights) from his/her base. Upon blocking in from the last flight the pilot the pilot goes out to lunch. While at lunch the pilot, using his/her mobile device, identifies an open trip that he/she would like to pick up. The open trip report time is two hours after the previous flight blocked in. The open trip would be completed within the FDP time allowed by Table Bfor un-augmented operations using the original report time from earlier in the day. The pilot certifies that he/she isfit for duty. Can the pilot fly the open trip at his/her request?

Yes, the pilot may fly the open trip at his/her request. In a recent interpretation, the FAA clarified that "if a certificate holder does not have an affirmative intent for no further aircraft movement at the conclusion of a flightcrew member' s last-scheduled segment, then that flightcrew member's FDP has not ended. Until the FDP ends, the certificate holder can assign the flightcrew member additional flight segments as long as the flightcrew member's FDP does not exceed the pertinent FDP limits of part 117. In
your scenario, the flightcrew member went to lunch after the first round trip. For purposes of this interpretation, we will presume that the flightcrew member's FDP has not ended and, therefore, the flightcrew member's FDP clock continues to run at that point. Therefore, since you stated that the open trip could be completed within the FDP limits using the original report time and that the pilot would certify that he/she is fit for duty, the flightcrew member could fly the open trip. This would be the case whether the certificate holder assigned a flight or whether the flightcrew member asked for the assignment.

WhiskeyDelta

This is voluntary pick-up of extra flying. The certificate holder cannot at their discretion add more flying in the above scenario. The OP was asking about being assigned more flying from his company. They cannot call him while he’s driving home and say “Oh, by the way, your FDP isn’t over. Go back to the airport for another turn.”

Here's Delta ALPA's take as of last year:

“Flight Duty Period (FDP) – 117.13
· Begins when you report for duty with the intent to fly.
· Ends when the parking brake is set after the last flying segment with no further expectation to fly. [Understanding when an FDP ends is CRITICAL because if you accept additional flying after block-in without the required 10 hour prospective rest you are violating the FARs.]”

GogglesPisano

Whiskey is correct. Once you block-in with no further expectation of flying, you need 10hrs rest before your next FDP/RAP.

IDIOTPILOT

“Scenario 2
A pilot (Captain) is scheduled to end the day with a company deadhead back to his/her base. Upon blocking infrom theflight that he/she operated two hours later he/she
reports to the gate for the deadhead flight. The pilot learns that the Captain scheduled to operate the deadhead has called in sick. At this time the pilot asks to operate the deadheadflight (qualified to do so). If the pilot operates the flight it is still within Table B limits using the original report time that the pilot started with earlier in the day. The
pilot certifies that he/she is fit for duty. Can the pilot operate this flight at his/her request?
Scenario 3:
Is a repeat of scenario two. In this case the carrier has requested that the pilot operate flight. The pilot agrees and certifies that he/she is fit for duty. Can the pilot operate this flight at the carrier's request?
Yes, the pilot would be able to operate the flight at his/her request or as scheduled by the certificate holder. As in Scenario #1, the controlling issue is whether any additional
flight assignments (by the certificate holder or at the request of a flightcrew member) can be operated within the flight time and FDP limits, using the original report time and making the necessary adjustments for changes in the number of segments. In another recent interpretation, the FAA elaborated that "if the certificate holder intends or may intend to use the flightcrew member for another flight or further aircraft movement, the certificate holder may do so by holding the pilot on duty with the FDP clock running, making necessary adjustments based on any assignments to ensure that the pertinent FDP limits are not violated.") In this case involving a deadhead, so long as the FDP clock is considered running from the original report time, the additional flying falls within the applicable flight time and FDP limits and the § 117.5 fitness for duty certification is made, the flightcrew member would be able to operate the flight in either scenario.“


FAA in this scenario have thrown affirmative intent on the company, not the pilot’s thinking of affirmative intent at any given time. As far as I can tell, there’s been no interpretation of needing to be notified that there’s not affirmative intent to not stop your FDP prior to brake set.

rickair7777

What this ultimately comes down to is can they notify you?

If you're driving home, the answer is no, unless they hold you on a RAP, which would be non-rest, which would push your availability tomorrow to the right. If you're not on a RAP, why on earth would you answer the damn phone???

If they catch you in the jetway, then that comes down to company policy/CBA.

The FAA never intended that you would suddenly and automatically, upon block-in, enter rest from which there would be no return for ten+ hours.

People often confuse 117 with a "pilot QOL protection act". It's not that, not by any means. For example, they company can put you on a three-leg, 28 hour deadhead to timbukthree following a 14 hour duty, 9 hour block flying day. Suck? Yes. Illegal? No. The FAA and 117 doesn't care and has ZERO bearing on what happens to you AFTER 121 flying is done. The company has unlimited discretion to abuse you then, and you don't even have the systemic protections of a fatigue call. The company is of course obligated to give the required rest before your next 121 flight.

QOL comes from your contract, not 117.

rickair7777

Further expectation of flying is nebulous. Whose expectation?

If you want to go home, you would presumably not expect to fly.

If you want to pick up some OT, then you would expect to fly.

If you didn't plan to fly more, you're not up to it, and they junior man you, then call in fatigued.

The solution to this CBA language prohibiting junior man at the end of a trip. Don't like getting reflowed mid-trp? Then get CBA language for that...

WhiskeyDelta

DALPA has told us that this scenario is a flat out violation of 117. According to them, even your jetway example isn’t legal.

The bottom line here is that notification of additional flying has to be given prior to the brakes being set. At that moment the expectation to fly is over and, therefore, another 10 hour rest period must occur before anything flying.

We have open time *****s at Delta. They will do anything to get more straight or premium pay. Don’t you think if your line of thinking was correct that they would be pushing ALPA to correct their stance?

So far, nothing in this thread has convinced me that ALPA is wrong. This doesn’t pass the sniff test to me. As always, I’ll admit when I’m wrong but I’m not there just yet.

GogglesPisano

Further expectation is whatever is printed on your rotation/pairing/trip ..

ELAC321

Maybe you should read those letter of interpretations. Mainly the 1st one posted.