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Old 01-17-2018, 05:43 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik View Post
Can I ask who you work for and where that company is based?
Typhoon and captjns are European pilots who support NAI, WOW, Ryan Air and the ME3. Pretty much all they do is hate on the US airlines. I just figure they are jealous of US pilot’s superior flying skills, higher pay, better benefits and more time off.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:15 PM
  #12  
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Default State owned = Okay

The response to the above post by these two will be telling
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:22 PM
  #13  
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Definitely some sour grapes involved.
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Old 01-17-2018, 07:51 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by Half wing View Post
Typhoon and captjns are European pilots who support NAI, WOW, Ryan Air and the ME3. Pretty much all they do is hate on the US airlines. I just figure they are jealous of US pilot’s superior flying skills, higher pay, better benefits and more time off.
Typhoon and Captjns are American pilots who have worked here and overseas. I think they see the picture a little more clearly than those of you who have never left the United States. The U.S carriers just recently started making money and investing in new aircraft. Not too long ago, they were not the best product either and the salaries sucked. It's funny how pilots here are fed garbage and refuse to see the perspective from a global viewpoint. There are 22 year old 777 FO's and 30 year old 777 Captains flying for flag carriers around the world so by all means this career is not rocket science. Also, for those of you who think U.S legacy pilots are the best paid, look at what Lufthansa, Air France and KLM pay their pilots. They even have six figure annual pension payments waiting for them post retirement. So please, just save it. Just be glad that times are good in the U.S airline business right now and enjoy the ride but to think this is as good as it gets, I laugh at that..
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:11 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Half wing View Post
What’s your point? That US carriers are hypocrites? Here you go again...
My points for this specific thread are numerous:

1) ALPA has a history of failed strategies that adversely affect U.S. pilots.

2) Most ALPA pilots tend to blindly follow those strategies without seeing where real threats to their career might be coming from.

3) The U.S. carriers seem to be giving away all the potential growth across the Pacific and in Asia to the Chinese (State owned and/or State supported carriers).

So a little bit of discussion to educate pilots is worthwhile. ALPA seems intent on campaigns against foreign carriers and in the process go so far as to try to hurt U.S. manufacturers' ability to sell their products overseas (thus harming other U.S. union workers). They get wound up about specific foreign competitors that their airline CEOs have told them are harmful all while the same CEOs go about outsourcing good international widebody flying to other State owned and supported carriers.

Just for the record, I am American and I do support the success of U.S. carriers and their workforce. I'm based in Taipei and can no longer ride on Delta (formerly NWA) flights to get back and forth to the USA. I have another home in Thailand where I can also no longer ride on Delta to get to and from the USA. I would never ride on China Eastern for long haul travel, or any of the other Chinese State owned carriers.

When Delta pulled out of Bangkok I mentioned it to some NWA 747 pilots and they did not even know. Which is why this kind of education is important. There are probably quite a few domestic Delta pilots who have no clue what is going on over here. Instead of writing letters to Congress about foreign competitors that you will never have any control over, how about more forcefully protecting your current international flying before it all gets outsourced?

Instead of trying to block the sale of U.S. equipment overseas how about writing letters to Congress to get more favorable treatment for U.S. airlines to purchase U.S. manufactured products? These are actions that will result in something known as a "win-win".
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Old 01-17-2018, 09:52 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot View Post

In 2015, Delta Air Lines acquired 10% of China Eastern's Hong Kong-listed shares for $450 million. This translates to a 3.55% stake in the Chinese airline. The airline's president has also said that it will work to attract other investments, and reduce the stakes held by state-owned enterprises.

Last year, China Southern also sold a 2.68% stake to American Airlines for HK$1.55 billion ($198 million). American also has an observer on the Chinese carrier's board, without any voting rights. This makes Air China the only state-owned operator without a foreign investor.
To add to the conversation regarding Air China's link with UAL via the Star Alliance:

Air China joined Star Alliance in December 2007. As a Star Alliance member and the only flag carrier of China, Air China operates a worldwide network of more than 6,000 flights every week from its hub in Beijing, linking 143 destinations in 30 countries and regions.
The United pilot's CBA has [arguably] strict language on JV which essentially requires "metal in the market" and prohibits an agreement similar to what DAL and AMR both have with their respective Chinese counterparts. UAL and ALPA will begin negotiating by April with the goal of closing on a new CBA by the end of this year. It doesn't take very much imagination to guess what might be on their wish list regarding scope restrictions.
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Old 01-17-2018, 11:06 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot View Post

I would never ride on China Eastern for long haul travel, or any of the other Chinese State owned carriers.
Just curious, can you clarify why? Is China Eastern's safety record that bad? I've never flown on a Chinese-state owned carrier. I travel extensively around Asia, and for transpacs am usually on United, Cathay, KAL, JAL, Asiana, EVA, and China Airlines. I've always wondered how the Chinese state carriers keep rates so low. That said, the safety record of KAL and China Airlines used to leave much to be desired, and Asiana hasn't done itself any favors recently in that department.

So, just curious why you wouldn't ride on one of the former CAAC carriers. (What did they call it back in the day? "Crashes And Always Cancels" if I recall...)
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Old 01-18-2018, 01:22 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Turbosina View Post
Just curious, can you clarify why? Is China Eastern's safety record that bad? I've never flown on a Chinese-state owned carrier. I travel extensively around Asia, and for transpacs am usually on United, Cathay, KAL, JAL, Asiana, EVA, and China Airlines. I've always wondered how the Chinese state carriers keep rates so low. That said, the safety record of KAL and China Airlines used to leave much to be desired, and Asiana hasn't done itself any favors recently in that department.

So, just curious why you wouldn't ride on one of the former CAAC carriers. (What did they call it back in the day? "Crashes And Always Cancels" if I recall...)

Safety is certainly a concern, but it's more about the nightmare of a travel experience as a passenger. Some examples:

1) Use of Personal electronic devices, even in the aircraft mode, are banned during takeoff and from 30 minutes prior to landing (basically top of descent). Use of smart phones, even in the aircraft mode, is banned for the entire flight. Only Tablets and Laptops are allowed.

2) Numerous fasten seat belt announcements, at great length, for every small ripple of turbulence.

3) Connecting domestic and international procedures from the dark ages. To the point that in some cases on a connection you must exit through baggage claim and go back to the check-in to get your next boarding pass.

4) Service standards and quality in First and Business is years behind the western standard.
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Old 01-18-2018, 04:45 AM
  #19  
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Couldn't speak for foreign carries all too much as I have no real international experience flying mostly domestic .

However being based in JFK nearly 8 years I can tel you this . China Eastern and their Cargo version and a bit of Aeromexico , dudes get lost and make incorrect taxi instructions nearly every single time ... left turns instead of rights and now yiur dead to head with another 747 having to be tugged backwards . Biggest disasters everytime they land . The controllers literally are angles dealing with those guys in my eyes .
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Old 01-18-2018, 05:14 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot View Post
My points for this specific thread are numerous:

1) ALPA has a history of failed strategies that adversely affect U.S. pilots.

2) Most ALPA pilots tend to blindly follow those strategies without seeing where real threats to their career might be coming from.

3) The U.S. carriers seem to be giving away all the potential growth across the Pacific and in Asia to the Chinese (State owned and/or State supported carriers).

So a little bit of discussion to educate pilots is worthwhile. ALPA seems intent on campaigns against foreign carriers and in the process go so far as to try to hurt U.S. manufacturers' ability to sell their products overseas (thus harming other U.S. union workers). They get wound up about specific foreign competitors that their airline CEOs have told them are harmful all while the same CEOs go about outsourcing good international widebody flying to other State owned and supported carriers.

Just for the record, I am American and I do support the success of U.S. carriers and their workforce. I'm based in Taipei and can no longer ride on Delta (formerly NWA) flights to get back and forth to the USA. I have another home in Thailand where I can also no longer ride on Delta to get to and from the USA. I would never ride on China Eastern for long haul travel, or any of the other Chinese State owned carriers.

When Delta pulled out of Bangkok I mentioned it to some NWA 747 pilots and they did not even know. Which is why this kind of education is important. There are probably quite a few domestic Delta pilots who have no clue what is going on over here. Instead of writing letters to Congress about foreign competitors that you will never have any control over, how about more forcefully protecting your current international flying before it all gets outsourced?

Instead of trying to block the sale of U.S. equipment overseas how about writing letters to Congress to get more favorable treatment for U.S. airlines to purchase U.S. manufactured products? These are actions that will result in something known as a "win-win".
We agree that scope is the biggest concern/issue facing US pilots today. As Googles mentioned, it is the reason scope is section 1 in the contract. I also agree with you that US airlines should be getting a better deal on U.S. products, but it is currently the other way around. As far as bending over and letting unfair competition take market share, no thanks. I’m all for putting the brakes on that.
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