"Automated" Airmanship
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
How we're expected to become or remain proficient at flying the plane, I don't know. I know that if I'm in the back and the AP quits, I would hope the crew diverts to a VMC field.
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 289
I can only speak for what I see at my regional (which I won't name because I don't want to cause a ruckus). Hand flying was deemphasized in training and is rarely done on the line above 1000 feet. I think I've only seen one captain ever turn the AP off in IMC.
How we're expected to become or remain proficient at flying the plane, I don't know. I know that if I'm in the back and the AP quits, I would hope the crew diverts to a VMC field.
How we're expected to become or remain proficient at flying the plane, I don't know. I know that if I'm in the back and the AP quits, I would hope the crew diverts to a VMC field.
Every sim ride I have done has required a single engine missed and a single engine hand flown ILS to mins. I would hope anyone sitting in a US airliner could fly that without a problem.
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
To think that this keeps one comfortable and proficient for real life, is naive.
Real life is where you keep the AP on and say things like "better scan for traffic" or "maintain better situational awareness" or "they don't pay me enough to do that" or "I'm old and lazy, haha" or "this plane is designed to be flown with the autopilot" or "helps you make a stabilized approach" or "reduce your workload" or "reduce the other crewmember's workload" etc... anything but fly the plane.
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
That's a bit of a stretch to go from saying that hand flying is deemphasized in training to hand flying is essentially an emergency procedure.
I know that if I'm in the back and the AP quits, I would hope the crew diverts to a VMC field
And just because that is the way it is at your airline, doesn't mean it is that way other places. I would have no problem doing some handflying, nor would I give a second thought to sitting in back if my fellow workers had to do it. Even in IMC!?!
#67
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 88
I can only speak for what I see at my regional (which I won't name because I don't want to cause a ruckus). Hand flying was deemphasized in training and is rarely done on the line above 1000 feet. I think I've only seen one captain ever turn the AP off in IMC.
How we're expected to become or remain proficient at flying the plane, I don't know. I know that if I'm in the back and the AP quits, I would hope the crew diverts to a VMC field.
How we're expected to become or remain proficient at flying the plane, I don't know. I know that if I'm in the back and the AP quits, I would hope the crew diverts to a VMC field.
Also, as a side question. What are the airlines that allow you and even encourage hand flying?
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Position: Downwind, headed straight for the rocks, shanghaied aboard the ship of fools.
Posts: 1,128
Anyone who thinks that hand flying a single engine approach in imc in any weather to 200 and 1/2 is a dangerous challenge would be better off either taking a step back and getting some real actual experience or going away and doing something else. Because hand flown single engine Cat I approaches are easy and no danger at all to us experienced professionals. Sorry if that’s harsh but that’s just the way it is.
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
A normal procedure is something you do, well, normally, with the everyday ease and comfort of putting your pants on in the morning. An emergency procedure is something that is too risky to practice normally, so you save it for the sim and hope that it comes out OK if the necessity comes up in real life. One time I witnessed an approach brief (from the jumpseat on mainline, by the way) that included "and I'm gonna keep the autopilot on, I'm not gonna F around today." It was 800 broken, with no compounding factors. To characterize it as F-ing around instead of, you know, flying the plane, the main thing we supposedly do as pilots... does that sound like a normal procedure to you?
If that is indeed true and how you feel about the pilot's ability at your airline, it sounds like your airline should immediately be shut down and all it's pilots given re-examination rides.
I知 curious as to what regional airline you work for since I知 just beginning my training and part of the reason as to why I知 pursuing this career professionally is that I really enjoy hand flying, and flying in general. I知 well aware that European and Asian carriers are very restrictive in regards to allowing pilots to hand fly the beast but I thought we were different here in the good old US of A.
Anyone who thinks that hand flying a single engine approach in imc in any weather to 200 and 1/2 is a dangerous challenge would be better off either taking a step back and getting some real actual experience or going away and doing something else. Because hand flown single engine Cat I approaches are easy and no danger at all to us experienced professionals. Sorry if that痴 harsh but that痴 just the way it is.
Last edited by vessbot; 03-18-2018 at 01:31 PM.