Logbook advice
10-25-2019, 08:34 AM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Guppy Gear Slinger
Posts: 1,850
Logbook advice
(Mods, feel free to move if this is posted in the wrong place.)
Time for this old goat to start thinking about moving on from the regionals, and I would appreciate any helpful advice regarding what may appear to be a ridiculous question.
Way back in 2002, literally the day after earning my ATP, my car was broken into and my flight bag was stolen, along with other belongings. In that flight bag were my paper logbooks, from hour 0 until hour ~1,500. So I lost the records of all that flight time, plus all of my practical tests up to that point: PPL, Instrument, Commercial single and multi, CFI initial, CFI-instrument, CFI-multi. I had not kept photocopies of my logbooks. As you might imagine, this was rather distressing. At least they didn't get my glider logbooks...
I requested and received my full FAA records with copies of all 8710 forms, which of course showed my flight times at each of my practical tests. And when I took my ATP ride, the inspector verified all my paper logs (this was before they were stolen) -- as I recall, the verification process was a required part of the ATP ride. So I bought a new logbook, entered in the 'carry forward' times from the 8710 form submitted as part of my ATP application, and then religiously kept both paper and digital copies of all flight time logged from then onwards, which included more checkrides (Pt 141 Chief Instructor, plus two jet type ratings including all my Pt 121 flying.) The 141 Chief Instructor process also included an extensive FAA verification of all my times, and they accepted all my 8710 forms as proper verification.
When I applied to my regional I explained this all in detail prior to showing up for the interview. It was not a problem. I simply showed up with my paper + electronic logs from 1,500 hours going forward. Since I had all my 8710 form copies, I simply filled out the first line of my logbook with the carried-forward totals from my missing logs.
But then I read on these forums about how detailed the logbook examinations are at DAL, UAL, SWA, etc. The simple truth is, I don't have paper or electronic logs for any of my specific flights from zero to about 1,500 hours. I now have ~8,000 hours, but those first 1,500 are only recorded as carry-forward totals. So there's no way I can open a logbook to, say, my commercial single practical test and share a story about that day with the hiring board, if they ask. The good news, I guess, is that I've never once failed a practical test, recurrent, or any FAA test of any kind.
Anyone out there have a similar situation, and what did you do to address it? Any advice would be great. (Besides "Don't leave your car parked on the street in Oakland, you idiot.")
Thank you. And yes, I'm a Skywest guy, but the jumpseat wars are over and I'm one of the guys who thought it never should have been declared in the first place, so please be kind
Time for this old goat to start thinking about moving on from the regionals, and I would appreciate any helpful advice regarding what may appear to be a ridiculous question.
Way back in 2002, literally the day after earning my ATP, my car was broken into and my flight bag was stolen, along with other belongings. In that flight bag were my paper logbooks, from hour 0 until hour ~1,500. So I lost the records of all that flight time, plus all of my practical tests up to that point: PPL, Instrument, Commercial single and multi, CFI initial, CFI-instrument, CFI-multi. I had not kept photocopies of my logbooks. As you might imagine, this was rather distressing. At least they didn't get my glider logbooks...
I requested and received my full FAA records with copies of all 8710 forms, which of course showed my flight times at each of my practical tests. And when I took my ATP ride, the inspector verified all my paper logs (this was before they were stolen) -- as I recall, the verification process was a required part of the ATP ride. So I bought a new logbook, entered in the 'carry forward' times from the 8710 form submitted as part of my ATP application, and then religiously kept both paper and digital copies of all flight time logged from then onwards, which included more checkrides (Pt 141 Chief Instructor, plus two jet type ratings including all my Pt 121 flying.) The 141 Chief Instructor process also included an extensive FAA verification of all my times, and they accepted all my 8710 forms as proper verification.
When I applied to my regional I explained this all in detail prior to showing up for the interview. It was not a problem. I simply showed up with my paper + electronic logs from 1,500 hours going forward. Since I had all my 8710 form copies, I simply filled out the first line of my logbook with the carried-forward totals from my missing logs.
But then I read on these forums about how detailed the logbook examinations are at DAL, UAL, SWA, etc. The simple truth is, I don't have paper or electronic logs for any of my specific flights from zero to about 1,500 hours. I now have ~8,000 hours, but those first 1,500 are only recorded as carry-forward totals. So there's no way I can open a logbook to, say, my commercial single practical test and share a story about that day with the hiring board, if they ask. The good news, I guess, is that I've never once failed a practical test, recurrent, or any FAA test of any kind.
Anyone out there have a similar situation, and what did you do to address it? Any advice would be great. (Besides "Don't leave your car parked on the street in Oakland, you idiot.")
Thank you. And yes, I'm a Skywest guy, but the jumpseat wars are over and I'm one of the guys who thought it never should have been declared in the first place, so please be kind
Last edited by Turbosina; 10-25-2019 at 08:56 AM.
10-25-2019, 04:52 PM
#2
Roll’n Thunder
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Position: Pilot
Posts: 3,546
Originally Posted by Turbosina
(Mods, feel free to move if this is posted in the wrong place.)
Time for this old goat to start thinking about moving on from the regionals, and I would appreciate any helpful advice regarding what may appear to be a ridiculous question.
Way back in 2002, literally the day after earning my ATP, my car was broken into and my flight bag was stolen, along with other belongings. In that flight bag were my paper logbooks, from hour 0 until hour ~1,500. So I lost the records of all that flight time, plus all of my practical tests up to that point: PPL, Instrument, Commercial single and multi, CFI initial, CFI-instrument, CFI-multi. I had not kept photocopies of my logbooks. As you might imagine, this was rather distressing. At least they didn't get my glider logbooks...
I requested and received my full FAA records with copies of all 8710 forms, which of course showed my flight times at each of my practical tests. And when I took my ATP ride, the inspector verified all my paper logs (this was before they were stolen) -- as I recall, the verification process was a required part of the ATP ride. So I bought a new logbook, entered in the 'carry forward' times from the 8710 form submitted as part of my ATP application, and then religiously kept both paper and digital copies of all flight time logged from then onwards, which included more checkrides (Pt 141 Chief Instructor, plus two jet type ratings including all my Pt 121 flying.) The 141 Chief Instructor process also included an extensive FAA verification of all my times, and they accepted all my 8710 forms as proper verification.
When I applied to my regional I explained this all in detail prior to showing up for the interview. It was not a problem. I simply showed up with my paper + electronic logs from 1,500 hours going forward. Since I had all my 8710 form copies, I simply filled out the first line of my logbook with the carried-forward totals from my missing logs.
But then I read on these forums about how detailed the logbook examinations are at DAL, UAL, SWA, etc. The simple truth is, I don't have paper or electronic logs for any of my specific flights from zero to about 1,500 hours. I now have ~8,000 hours, but those first 1,500 are only recorded as carry-forward totals. So there's no way I can open a logbook to, say, my commercial single practical test and share a story about that day with the hiring board, if they ask. The good news, I guess, is that I've never once failed a practical test, recurrent, or any FAA test of any kind.
Anyone out there have a similar situation, and what did you do to address it? Any advice would be great. (Besides "Don't leave your car parked on the street in Oakland, you idiot.")
Thank you. And yes, I'm a Skywest guy, but the jumpseat wars are over and I'm one of the guys who thought it never should have been declared in the first place, so please be kind
Time for this old goat to start thinking about moving on from the regionals, and I would appreciate any helpful advice regarding what may appear to be a ridiculous question.
Way back in 2002, literally the day after earning my ATP, my car was broken into and my flight bag was stolen, along with other belongings. In that flight bag were my paper logbooks, from hour 0 until hour ~1,500. So I lost the records of all that flight time, plus all of my practical tests up to that point: PPL, Instrument, Commercial single and multi, CFI initial, CFI-instrument, CFI-multi. I had not kept photocopies of my logbooks. As you might imagine, this was rather distressing. At least they didn't get my glider logbooks...
I requested and received my full FAA records with copies of all 8710 forms, which of course showed my flight times at each of my practical tests. And when I took my ATP ride, the inspector verified all my paper logs (this was before they were stolen) -- as I recall, the verification process was a required part of the ATP ride. So I bought a new logbook, entered in the 'carry forward' times from the 8710 form submitted as part of my ATP application, and then religiously kept both paper and digital copies of all flight time logged from then onwards, which included more checkrides (Pt 141 Chief Instructor, plus two jet type ratings including all my Pt 121 flying.) The 141 Chief Instructor process also included an extensive FAA verification of all my times, and they accepted all my 8710 forms as proper verification.
When I applied to my regional I explained this all in detail prior to showing up for the interview. It was not a problem. I simply showed up with my paper + electronic logs from 1,500 hours going forward. Since I had all my 8710 form copies, I simply filled out the first line of my logbook with the carried-forward totals from my missing logs.
But then I read on these forums about how detailed the logbook examinations are at DAL, UAL, SWA, etc. The simple truth is, I don't have paper or electronic logs for any of my specific flights from zero to about 1,500 hours. I now have ~8,000 hours, but those first 1,500 are only recorded as carry-forward totals. So there's no way I can open a logbook to, say, my commercial single practical test and share a story about that day with the hiring board, if they ask. The good news, I guess, is that I've never once failed a practical test, recurrent, or any FAA test of any kind.
Anyone out there have a similar situation, and what did you do to address it? Any advice would be great. (Besides "Don't leave your car parked on the street in Oakland, you idiot.")
Thank you. And yes, I'm a Skywest guy, but the jumpseat wars are over and I'm one of the guys who thought it never should have been declared in the first place, so please be kind
10-27-2019, 03:31 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Position: Poolside
Posts: 534
Sounds to me like you’ve explained it very well, and now have enough experience for the first 1500 hours to be de minimis. As long as you continue to treat your logs with great care (sounds like you are), and your explanation stays consistent, I think you should be OK.
(NOTE: I am not a pilot recruiter, so YMMV)
(NOTE: I am not a pilot recruiter, so YMMV)
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