Legalized Marijuana and the FAA
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
I see where you're going with this, but your analogy is a bit off. Marijuana is currently illegal and carries a significant social stigma, I can't think of a parallel substance. Maybe alcohol after prohibition, but alcohol wasn't illegal for all that long and there was no FAA when prohibition was repealed. To devil's advocate your devil's advocate, what substance has been illegal for 80+ years then been made legal, and then been approved for use by the FAA?
Remember, this is the organization that thinks my cell phone out of airplane mode is going to bring down an airliner. My offer stands, I bet 1 bag of cool ranch doritos that my 1st joint will be the day I turn 65 years old (or whatever the retirement age is when I finally get there) and not a day before (or after).
Remember, this is the organization that thinks my cell phone out of airplane mode is going to bring down an airliner. My offer stands, I bet 1 bag of cool ranch doritos that my 1st joint will be the day I turn 65 years old (or whatever the retirement age is when I finally get there) and not a day before (or after).
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
I agree with westernflight, metabolites are the issue. The second issue is rapid testing. The breathalyzer is not a final diagnostic tool in many states/countries, only blood tests (GC/MS). I would refuse a breathalyzer anytime in-lieu of a blood test if in a location where it’s allowed. Despite what you might think, this is legal in many states (not sure how DOT treats state officials administering breathalyzer for federal transportation), and not considered a refusal. There are many reasons a breathalyzer is flawed (hydration, lung volume, calibration, ketosis (acetone)), 1960 average lung volumes, etc.
Twenty years ago, my forensic chemistry teacher told us to always refuse and opt for blood tests. Now after 300+ cases, my defense attorney friend agrees. HOWEVER. this is not legal advice!!!
The problem with THC is there aren’t many funded studies to determine impairment levels. There’s a forensic scientist running around the halls of state legislature in CO claiming 0 ng/ml is a sound threshold. But that’s likely because she has a B.S in Chemistry from printurdegree.com and has some religious objection to it. I hate to disparage but only a fool would advocate for “0”. It shows a complete lack of scientific basis or reasoning.
Bottom line, DOT thresholds and DOD thresholds for THC/metabolites are around 15ng/ml but you can be convicted of impairment by local authorities at 3ng or less. It’ll be years before there is a consensus to convince the FAA. It’s been legal for decades in other ICAO countries, what are their standards? I don’t know.
Rapid field tests/roadside tests = Maury Povich of science. If it comes back that I have fathered 3 children with Olivia Wilde, I wouldn’t go buying diapers just yet.
Twenty years ago, my forensic chemistry teacher told us to always refuse and opt for blood tests. Now after 300+ cases, my defense attorney friend agrees. HOWEVER. this is not legal advice!!!
The problem with THC is there aren’t many funded studies to determine impairment levels. There’s a forensic scientist running around the halls of state legislature in CO claiming 0 ng/ml is a sound threshold. But that’s likely because she has a B.S in Chemistry from printurdegree.com and has some religious objection to it. I hate to disparage but only a fool would advocate for “0”. It shows a complete lack of scientific basis or reasoning.
Bottom line, DOT thresholds and DOD thresholds for THC/metabolites are around 15ng/ml but you can be convicted of impairment by local authorities at 3ng or less. It’ll be years before there is a consensus to convince the FAA. It’s been legal for decades in other ICAO countries, what are their standards? I don’t know.
Rapid field tests/roadside tests = Maury Povich of science. If it comes back that I have fathered 3 children with Olivia Wilde, I wouldn’t go buying diapers just yet.
However, in the eyes of the FAA in terms of your medical certificate I think they classify a refusal the same as a positive breathe test. Just throwing that out there.
Btw getting a dui has always been extremely poor judgement but these days with the availability of ride sharing apps it’s just plain stupid.
#103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 104
I see where you're going with this, but your analogy is a bit off. Marijuana is currently illegal and carries a significant social stigma, I can't think of a parallel substance. Maybe alcohol after prohibition, but alcohol wasn't illegal for all that long and there was no FAA when prohibition was repealed. To devil's advocate your devil's advocate, what substance has been illegal for 80+ years then been made legal, and then been approved for use by the FAA?
Remember, this is the organization that thinks my cell phone out of airplane mode is going to bring down an airliner. My offer stands, I bet 1 bag of cool ranch doritos that my 1st joint will be the day I turn 65 years old (or whatever the retirement age is when I finally get there) and not a day before (or after).
Remember, this is the organization that thinks my cell phone out of airplane mode is going to bring down an airliner. My offer stands, I bet 1 bag of cool ranch doritos that my 1st joint will be the day I turn 65 years old (or whatever the retirement age is when I finally get there) and not a day before (or after).
As stated before, if two people consumed the same amount of alcohol and one person took 8 hours to be under the limit but the other took 5 days, would we accept that as a valid testing method? Why is there only one substance out there that we accept a test of this nature? If you look way back to the reasons it was originally outlawed I think you might find the answer.
#104
As stated before, if two people consumed the same amount of alcohol and one person took 8 hours to be under the limit but the other took 5 days, would we accept that as a valid testing method? Why is there only one substance out there that we accept a test of this nature? If you look way back to the reasons it was originally outlawed I think you might find the answer.
Because it wasn't legal at all anywhere in the US a couple years ago, so the test only needed to determine if you'd been using it period.
IF it gets federally legalized, and IF the DOT (and DOD, and DOJ, etc) decide that it's OK to use, then they'll have to figure out how much you can smoke, how long ago, and develop a test for that specifically.
Don't hold your breath (pun intended), the feds will not be falling all over themselves to ensure the rights of airline pilots, soldiers, and cops to blaze up. That will take an act of congress.
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 1,907
Well Canada has just legalized Marijuana in the entire country. It'll be interesting to see if Canadian Pilots are allowed to use it. Should be the same rules as alcohol but if there's no test that can determine recent use I can see where the Canadian version of the FAA wouldn't allow it.
#106
Well Canada has just legalized Marijuana in the entire country. It'll be interesting to see if Canadian Pilots are allowed to use it. Should be the same rules as alcohol but if there's no test that can determine recent use I can see where the Canadian version of the FAA wouldn't allow it.
Just wait till you retire if you must.
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,436
A study published at Columbia University determined alcohol was a contributing factor in 40% of fatal traffic accidents in the 1999-2010. Marijuana, 12% over the same period. Altogether, a driver's risk being involved in a traffic fatality rises 24 times when using both. Both are presumably even riskier as applied to aircraft operations. Anyone who's smoked understands time/distance relationships are rearranged under the influence, which can last a while. Until the testing gets a lot more definitive, wouldn't look for a change in policy anytime soon.
#108
Don't hold your breath (pun intended), the feds will not be falling all over themselves to ensure the rights of airline pilots, soldiers, and cops to blaze up. That will take an act of congress.
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 531
Well Canada has just legalized Marijuana in the entire country. It'll be interesting to see if Canadian Pilots are allowed to use it. Should be the same rules as alcohol but if there's no test that can determine recent use I can see where the Canadian version of the FAA wouldn't allow it.
#110