military wash out
 

So hypothetically speaking.....

Let's say a guy washed out of a military flight program. Does this effectively kill his/her chances of working for a major airline?

Thanks,

DK

No.. go establish yourself with another company flying banners, traffic, cargo.. whatever for at least a year. Then move on. Once you show a history in 135 and 121 programs... nobody should be able to establish a trend of problems. Be prepared to answer that question the rest of your life.. but there will always be a job for you. You may get one or two "no thank you's"... but there will always be something.. Move on.. Aviation is unforgiving, but it's also there for the persistant to take...

The details of exactly why a guy washed out would probably be important to a prospective employer.

But I wouldn't say that just washing out would necessarily cause a person to be unemployable by the airlines.

Hypothetically

How would the airlines know about it? If a guy washes out of UPT, washes his hands of the military, presses on with a civilian career and does well, how would anyone know about him washing out? Not trying to be facetious, I'm just curious how someone would find out if the guy didn't tell them.

During an interview (and on the application for employment) you need to account for every day of your life since graduation. So... They will know. Plus, they'll need a DD 214 to verify Honorable Discharge (or whatever level was received)

I guess the guy could always claim he was assigned base environmental control officer, which was assigned to casual students at our UPT base.

All in all, not an impossible hurdle to overcome. I had a student who washed out and went on to fly for a regional carrier. No idea how far he went with it, but I wish him the best of luck. Most employers understand how strictly time limited the syllabus is in UPT, and sometimes the learning curve isn't steep enough. But given a second chance in the civilian world, perhaps one can prove his worth and be successful.

Sometimes no means just not right now. Persistence pays off. Best of luck in this hypothetical situation! :D

I'm not sure how they would even know you washed out of UPT? As for the DD214, CAL wants it at the interview, while SWA wants it afterwards.

I know of such a guy who is currently employed at FDX. A new hire, in fact.

I know a guy who had his Navy wings taken by a field review board. Six months later he was at CAL. (the year was 1982, though) Bottom line is that there are no hard and fast rules.

What happened?

Good points by all.. I would think the only killers would be some sort of drug, DUI, or medical problem. If you just couldn't nail your TACAN point to points, but showed the problem was fixed later through lots of hours with other companies, you should be OK.. One would think.. Also, be prepared how to answer it in an interview.

When I went through Navy UPT in the late 80s, we had lots of guy wash out. Many went to other sevices or went to time building jobs and continued to fly. Sometimes budget considerations force the sevices to RIF (Reduction in Forces). When this happens the standards are changed in flight school so more guys wash.. That's what happened to the guys I knew.

CAL hired an x Express guy who blew lines a coke in the airplane so...............................nothings for sure

Is that really true ??? All of a sudden lines from Airplane keep running through my head... "Looks like I picked a bad week to stop .... "

I think you presented the facts with a bit of a skew to them here as well as what REALLY happened. I'm not saying it's OK, just that the way you stated it is a little off.

We have tons of navs in the reserves that washed out of pilot training, went to nav training and now fly for majors. We have at least 5 in my unit alone.
Good luck.

Close friend of mine is in the left seat at USAir. He's been with the line for over 20 years.

He also washed out of Navy pilot training. It had no affect. He doesn't try and hide the fact. I submit that trying to hide it is worse than washing out, from a job hunt perspective.

Best of luck!

Thanks for all the insight, it is certainly reassuring.

Please continue with all the info available.

Thanks again.

DK

What if you washed out of ROTC?

Was he a scab?

THis guy got his wings, but was unable to make it through the P3 RAG due to some ego/ attitude issues (something to due with his handling of an actual inflight emergency). He was kept by the Navy for about six months before being booted. CAL hired him for their Guam base. His first name is Neil, if that rings any bells.

thanks for the continued feedback, keep it coming!

much appreciated....

DK

Not as long as he gets on with a unionized carrier. They will protect incompetent pilots as long as they pay their dues.

I know of a USAF pilot a few years back who got drummed out of the USAF because she committed adultery, refused to follow orders (was told to stop), thumbed her nose at the UCMJ, lacked moral character, ethics.....yada yada yada. Received a less than honorable discharge, and still got on with a major box carrier. Yet this same employer turns away dozens of other pilots with no transgressions. Go figure!

Gman, when you're in the process of being hired by a major airline, you don't actually have the protection of the union; in fact, you're not really protected until after your first (probation) year.

I've never seen the union protect an incompetent pilot. Very few incompetent pilots make it through the hiring process, at least at major airlines. What a union will do, is protect a pilot who does what he feels is the right thing do to, even if is not what his employer wants him to do.

I've calmed down many nervous passengers over the years, merely by telling them that nothing, or no one, can make me operate a flight when I think it's unsafe to do so. Can a non-union pilot do that? Not likely, especially if his five-year contract is up for renewal.

I'm not sure whether you're stupid or naive.

Hey, she got a bad rap. I've been told it says so right there in her book.

Who did she end up flying for?

oohhhhhh He's perfect for CAL, hahah:rolleyes:

Man u are so stupid.....................:cool:

Come on.........you can't say that there are some pilots that are flying 121 that probably shouldn't be because he/she did something wacky, but because of the union they are still around?:o

Being that it is not public knowledge as far as I know, I'd rather not say.

But this is public knowledge: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_Flinn

I didn't know she wrote a book, it would be interesting to see how she spun it.

You really didn't know she wrote a book? First time I've heard that.

Anyway, here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/Proud-Be-Life-.../dp/0375501096

I'm sure it's riveting.

"Kelly Flinn might have been a fine pilot, but she's not much of a writer."


hahaha thats the review she got, hahaha her book is $3.99 :p

You have no clue about our contract.
Do you seriously think we would operate a flight that we consider unsafe?
The opposite is true, pepole get fired for taking chances, not for going the safest route.

1- No, I don't have a clue about your contract, and I don't care to.

2-What is considered safe is often subjective, with the captain's opinion based upon (presumably) thousands of hours of flight time, and the manager's opinion based upon statistics, opinions, the way things used to be, or any of a thousand things. Differences are bound to occur.

If I'm called upon to defend my decisions, I want a union rep by my side. You can go in with your contract, or whatever you want. Best of luck to you.

3-The "safest route" is to never leave the gate. We take chances every time we push back. Every flight involves risk. We merely manage it.

4- I still can't tell if you're stupid or naive.

Dark Knight,

I know of several pilots in my class 1986-87 that washed out and are flying for the majors today. One can always use the explanation that I flew great but that formation stuff screwed me up!! tha airlines don't seem to care about fromation proficiency

[QUOTE=CVG767A;146812]1- No, I don't have a clue about your contract, and I don't care to.

[QUOTE]

That says it all.

Wow, Great comeback! Do you have as good a reply for the rest of my post?

Gman is limited to four syllables per response, unless its stupid, than its unlimited! :rolleyes: :D

Totally agreed. Most of the skills between military and commercial pilots are interchangeable, but a good military pilot does not a good airline pilot make, not always. I did pretty good in UPT, but my formation SUCKED. Attitude and an ejection seat was the only thing that got me through. 99% of guys wash-out of UPT because of attitude. Attitude will manifest into flying skills. If you humbly own up to that shortcoming, the interviewers won't hold it against you. UPT is not for everybody, but a good attitude is a must and can't be taught too late in the game. On the flip side, my Ops Group Commander from UPT was in my new-hire class at USAir. Didn't make it through training....bad attitude. I don't think you'll have a problem. Good Luck!