Hot cabins
06-02-2018, 05:27 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 216
First world pilot/passenger problems right here. It’s hot it happens. How do you think the generations felt years ago on the old pistons and early turboprops felt. They survived back then so can people today. However just by looking at the media and people in general everyone seems to getting weaker physically and mentally.
06-02-2018, 06:00 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,909
Originally Posted by 100LL
First world pilot/passenger problems right here. It’s hot it happens. How do you think the generations felt years ago on the old pistons and early turboprops felt. They survived back then so can people today. However just by looking at the media and people in general everyone seems to getting weaker physically and mentally.
While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.
The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.
Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.
Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.
C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.
I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?
How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?
Last edited by captjns; 06-02-2018 at 06:28 AM.
06-02-2018, 07:32 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: Jet
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by captjns
With the few exceptions, the airline industry is now an almost all jet fleet. Conditioned air carts are a thing of the present, and should be used... especially with an inoperative APU.
While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.
The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.
Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.
Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.
C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.
I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?
How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?
While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.
The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.
Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.
Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.
C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.
I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?
How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?
My crew and pax deserve a comfortable cabin.
06-02-2018, 07:35 AM
#14
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
If the airline wants to be environmental, they should announce at the gate that the air conditioning will not be run until after departure in order to save carbon. Then the pax can see how their PC sensibilities intersect with the real world and make their own informed decisions next time.
But yes, if no ground air then run the APU. I've never had an inop APU and no ground air, but using #2 as a big APU sounds like a good idea in that case. Most jet FOM/SOPs allow it, all of mine have.
But yes, if no ground air then run the APU. I've never had an inop APU and no ground air, but using #2 as a big APU sounds like a good idea in that case. Most jet FOM/SOPs allow it, all of mine have.
Last edited by rickair7777; 06-02-2018 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Clarity
06-02-2018, 07:44 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: B-737
Posts: 697
Originally Posted by EMBFlyer
Also on large-cabin airplanes like the A321 or 737-800, please DO NOT shut down the APU until the majority of the airplane has deplaned!
06-02-2018, 07:50 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Originally Posted by captjns
With the few exceptions, the airline industry is now an almost all jet fleet. Conditioned air carts are a thing of the present, and should be used... especially with an inoperative APU.
While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.
The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.
Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.
Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.
C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.
I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?
How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?
While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.
The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.
Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.
Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.
C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.
I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?
How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?
06-02-2018, 07:58 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,909
Originally Posted by CousinEddie
Unless you and the ramp crew have a written, approved procedure for doing this, you are putting the risk squarely on your shoulders. The cargo doors are all closed up as you are boarding, then the late bags show up from the other side of the airport. They drive right behind your idling engine and someone gets hurt. Who are they going to blame? Ridiculous, I know. But there is a risk to going off-script. If something goes wrong, you are the fall guy.
By the grace of the Sky Gods, after briefing of the choreography and and with full concurrence with all parties concerned, never been in that position. There’s absolutely no difference during engine start and being advised last minutes bags have to be loaded on the jet with both motors runnning. Shut down two, open the bin, chuck the bag, close the bin, re-start number 2 and away we go. All that is covered in the brief. And yes... I’ve never had an issue with ground personnel regarding the above, as procedures are contained in our manuals. The Airline’s Ground Services Department provides and trains out station personnel normal and abnormal procedures accordingly.
06-02-2018, 11:02 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 309
Originally Posted by captjns
With the few exceptions, the airline industry is now an almost all jet fleet. Conditioned air carts are a thing of the present, and should be used... especially with an inoperative APU.
While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.
The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.
Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.
Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.
C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.
I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?
How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?
While In the US and overseas, I’ve had a few occasions with an inop APU with a GPU hooked up. I was told the conditioned air cart was not available. I’m not going to sit in an un-airconditioned jet with an OAT of 100 degrees plus. No worries... put an extra ton of kerosene on the jet... load the bags... close the bins... brief and give the ground personnel bottles of water... request from ground to run an engine at idle. Start the engine... disconnect the huffer, and GPU, get the air going and board the pax and get underway.
The duties and responsibilities of the captain of every FOM, GOM, COM, etc. of every airline I’ve flown with, states that they are responsible for the safety of the passengers, crewmembers and aircraft... including passenger comfort.
Today, marching orders from management via the C/P or D/O through memos, (not bulletins which would have to be incorporated into their manual systems) dictate otherwise. Bottom line... Don’t run the APU... save 20 pounds of fuel in the name the of “Carbon Foot Print”??? save $$$.
Years ago, the company relied on judgement of the 119 personnel who should be entrusted with the keys to the jet. Of late, it seems the dictates of the non 119 group control... what a shame.
C/Ps and D/Os, worth their salt, back their crews when exercising proper judgment and responsibility towards the safety of their fellow crewmembers and passengers.
I just don’t get to... why are so many afraid to start the APU 10 minutes earlier?
How many captains, who really run their show, rather than OCC, have been called in for tea and biscuits regarding APU Usage?
Dilly dilly.
I promise you that your CEO won’t tolerate an unairconditioned office and neither should you.
06-02-2018, 01:43 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by captjns
Every carriers I’ve worked with prohibit leaving the aircraft unattended, with the APU running, unless maintanance is present at the aircraft or a crewmember is in the cockpit.
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