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[Breeze] Airways

Old 10-08-2021, 07:40 AM
  #1821  
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Originally Posted by AUpilot75 View Post
You do know that after Breeze, Allegiant is the next lowest paid right? Why are your pilots willing to work for wages that make it difficult for JetBlue come contract time. They will lose money now because your willing to work for so much less!!!
Originally Posted by Swapapotamoose View Post
Dude you’re talking about breeze and you fly for allegiant 😂. At least breeze has the excuse that they are brand new (no where near making a profit) and fly smaller equipment. G4 makes a ton of cash and still pays you guys garbage. Please tell me how allegiant has helped others negotiate better contracts?? Comparing the 2 I think breeze has the upper hand and they’ve been flying 5 months vs 23 years. Same business model day trips but at least with Breeze you have a chance of being based somewhere decent out of training (CHS TPA). Better than up rooting your family to FNT. Same first year pay but upgrade at breeze in less than a year at 130hr. Their Capt pay will undoubtedly be a least what g4 has within a couple years. I’m not promoting ppl to stay at breeze but it could definitely be a stepping stone until something better shows up.
We are currently in section 6 negotiations. Our contract is 5 years old, 6 months past its amenable date. When we first signed, we were the highest paid in class, and then got leap frogged by everyone.

Do you even know what you're talking about?

Tell me about your union. Wait never mind.

Originally Posted by Uncle Wurmy View Post
You do realize he is home every night at Allegiant, right? Allegiant is the lowest paid Airbus operator right now but the contract is up for negotiations at this very moment. Allegiant will get a big pay increase, and then the next airline in negotiations will use that to pull their CBA rates up even higher...and then the cycle will repeat as the contracts come back up for negotiation again. Breeze has some of the same EX Allegiant management people that did everything in their power to keep a union off the property, fight against a CBA, and seemed to work hard to make pilots' lives miserable just for their enjoyment. I don't knock you for what you are doing, I get the not having options standpoint and the doing it for my family viewpoint, but please don't kid yourself about the work rules, pay rates, stock, etc being a good thing for your pilots or the company making everything right soon.
This guy gets it.
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Old 10-08-2021, 07:46 AM
  #1822  
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Originally Posted by fastneat View Post
Here's a thought!.. How much is spending time with your wife/husband/ and kids worth? How much is it worth to be there for all those games, those parent nights, those birthdays.. church. How much does a pilot have to make per hour before that silly family stuff is worth less than all that pay?

Spolier alert.. that number is relative to each of us. And quite frankly, it's none of any one else's business what my family is worth to you. I only answer to them. And for many people at Breeze who are here because being home every night, and at least all day three days a week, it is worth way more than what you value it to be, this is why many people are here.

Call us crazy. But our families love seeing us every day. 🤷‍♂️

Cockroaches? Seriously.. enjoy your divorce (es).
I'm home every night at allegiant. Do a little industry research.
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Old 10-08-2021, 07:58 AM
  #1823  
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Originally Posted by Margaritaville View Post
Would you also cross a picket line because you feel its the right move for you? Same mentality. Greed and selfishness, with a complete lack of sense of community. SCAB mentality.
Never been in a position to have to cross one so I'd like to say I wouldn't, but any one could sit here and say they would do the right thing. It's a whole other thing to actually follow through in the moment. With thay being said I don't owe you or anyone els a damn thing. In any other business it's exactly that, business. I'm not gona make my decisions based on how it effects Margaritaville From what I know about the industry and people who have had to deal with strikes and scabs, that term is reserved for exactly that. It seems that people started using that term for anyone they don't like.
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Old 10-08-2021, 10:36 AM
  #1824  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I might go for that in a tech company... a small idea can go viral and amplify it's value by orders of magnitude in months.

But an airline??? Which is in a commodity service industry? Equity valuation will be a long, slow plodding march, set back as costs gradually rise and the competitors start resisting your encroachment. Always with the risk of a big downturn wiping you out. Gonna depend on timing and luck frankly. Almost might as well go to Vegas, at least you know if you won or lost right away.

IIRC a few people did make out that way with SW and maybe B6, so not impossible but it doesn't seem like a great personal financial plan.
Tech startups fail a lot as well. They donít always turn into Google or Facebook or Twitter. Itís always a gamble. But with an airline like breeze set to grow from nothing to a 100-150 airplane company in 5ish years, that valuation will potentially grow rapidly. And it isnít really a financial plan, itís more of part of the risk/reward equation for going to a startup (along with seniority), and a monetary one that *may* compensate for initial low wages. The idea with the airline startup paying in equity is to have it long enough for the airline to go public, still in growth stage, at which point you have the option to cash out (or hold, I guess, but holding stock long term in the company you work for isnít a great idea). That was one reason B6 got away with low wages initially, and some of those guys made out really well (some didnít). Itís just something like profit sharing in that that isnít guaranteed to pay out, but can move the needle in getting people in the door, and is an IOU of sorts, not really a scheme or promise that the stock will go parabolic and get richÖjust something additional on top of and to partially make up for initial low wages.

Iíd cut the breeze guys more slack if this were the case. Instead, they got a chance to put their own money into the company. Which is insanity when you think about it. Itís one thing to receive equity as compensation, but when you have to pay your own money, while already being underpaid, to invest in an airline startup at which you workÖyikes.
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Old 10-08-2021, 11:39 AM
  #1825  
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Originally Posted by Aaronyeger View Post
Never been in a position to have to cross one so I'd like to say I wouldn't, but any one could sit here and say they would do the right thing. It's a whole other thing to actually follow through in the moment. With thay being said I don't owe you or anyone els a damn thing. In any other business it's exactly that, business. I'm not gona make my decisions based on how it effects Margaritaville From what I know about the industry and people who have had to deal with strikes and scabs, that term is reserved for exactly that. It seems that people started using that term for anyone they don't like.
This should tell everyone everything they need to know.

Notice he didn't say he'd never cross a picket line, he said he'd have to make that decision if he came to it. Wow.

You're right. I don't like you. And I know you don't care. But I don't talk to scabs, so adios Aaron.
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Old 10-08-2021, 12:00 PM
  #1826  
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Originally Posted by Margaritaville View Post
This should tell everyone everything they need to know.

Notice he didn't say he'd never cross a picket line, he said he'd have to make that decision if he came to it. Wow.

You're right. I don't like you. And I know you don't care. But I don't talk to scabs, so adios Aaron.
Sorry I'm honest, but you honestly don't seem to know what a scab is. I have a few friends over at Allegiant, all of them cool guys who I wouldn't go out of my way to screw over. Now if me going to Breeze makes it harder for them (and you) to get a better contract, well then go fight with your management bout it.
Not my fault your gona have to wait till 2024 to get OK pay on an airbus.

Last edited by Aaronyeger; 10-08-2021 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 10-08-2021, 01:08 PM
  #1827  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
Tech startups fail a lot as well. They donít always turn into Google or Facebook or Twitter. Itís always a gamble. But with an airline like breeze set to grow from nothing to a 100-150 airplane company in 5ish years, that valuation will potentially grow rapidly. And it isnít really a financial plan, itís more of part of the risk/reward equation for going to a startup (along with seniority), and a monetary one that *may* compensate for initial low wages. The idea with the airline startup paying in equity is to have it long enough for the airline to go public, still in growth stage, at which point you have the option to cash out (or hold, I guess, but holding stock long term in the company you work for isnít a great idea). That was one reason B6 got away with low wages initially, and some of those guys made out really well (some didnít). Itís just something like profit sharing in that that isnít guaranteed to pay out, but can move the needle in getting people in the door, and is an IOU of sorts, not really a scheme or promise that the stock will go parabolic and get richÖjust something additional on top of and to partially make up for initial low wages.

Iíd cut the breeze guys more slack if this were the case. Instead, they got a chance to put their own money into the company. Which is insanity when you think about it. Itís one thing to receive equity as compensation, but when you have to pay your own money, while already being underpaid, to invest in an airline startup at which you workÖyikes.
I know guys who do tech startups. They fail a lot. But they only have to win big once.

An airline is going to be a long slog, and it's only likely to gain so much. An app can acquire 100 million new users in a month. An airline can only grow one plane at a time.

Not saying it won't happen, just that it's not a good rationale for working at a startup airline. If you want to get rich on startups, do it in the Bay, not Utah.
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Old 10-08-2021, 01:21 PM
  #1828  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I know guys who do tech startups. They fail a lot. But they only have to win big once.

An airline is going to be a long slog, and it's only likely to gain so much. An app can acquire 100 million new users in a month. An airline can only grow one plane at a time.

Not saying it won't happen, just that it's not a good rationale for working at a startup airline. If you want to get rich on startups, do it in the Bay, not Utah.
Never said it was a rationale for going to a startup. But it can (and has been) a part of the overall compensation plan during the low revenue start up phase (and thatís not necessarily even unique to airlines or tech companies). In this case, they arenít even offering that, making it even less appealing, and providing less justification to accept low wages. There is no, ďyeah itís low, but these stocks options will hopefully make up for itĒ justification as there was in the Ď99-Ď02 B6 days.
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Old 10-08-2021, 03:36 PM
  #1829  
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To me Breeze is a regional since it pays like a regional. If someone wants to go there to build up time and bounce, cool. If they want to go to a different regional to build up time and bounce, cool. If they want to stay, there's probably a reason other than finances for them to stay, like QOL, family, can't move, etc. If they want to go there, I don't care, it doesn't bother me. Why some are getting so worked up about what other people choose to do, is beyond me. If you don't like it, don't go. My body, my choice! Wait, different discussion...
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Old 10-08-2021, 05:05 PM
  #1830  
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Originally Posted by rickair7777 View Post
I know guys who do tech startups. They fail a lot. But they only have to win big once.

An airline is going to be a long slog, and it's only likely to gain so much. An app can acquire 100 million new users in a month. An airline can only grow one plane at a time.

Not saying it won't happen, just that it's not a good rationale for working at a startup airline. If you want to get rich on startups, do it in the Bay, not Utah.
UT has quite a number of tech start-ups too. Qualtrix and Domo come to mind.

But Iíd do tech start-ups over airline start-ups any day.
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