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[Breeze] Airways
08-07-2022, 12:13 PM
#3211
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by bonvoyage
The training at Breeze is not suited for non 121 experienced pilots. It can be done, but tread lightly and consider going to a regional where it is more common. Our training was created on the idea that the pilots were already typed in the AC, OR had thousands of hours of 121. Over the past 3 months, they began hiring low time, to no 121 time pilots and several have washed out. Also the sim instructors have become way more strict since some that were “borderline” made it to IOE (and shouldn’t have), but washed out there.
The union vote closes this week. The company really has backed itself into a corner, union or no union things must change around here.
The union vote closes this week. The company really has backed itself into a corner, union or no union things must change around here.
08-07-2022, 12:49 PM
#3212
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by BobbyLeeSwagger
I would steer any 1st 121s away from breeze. Just consider the big picture threat. It's not an airline for newbies, these arent smaller regional jets, and it's not AQP. Sure they will do what they can to get you through but as we all know (except light twin CFIs, of course)- it's a big jump to make going from a light twin to an E190 or bigger. RJ companies are more favorable places to transition.
If you fail out of training because you saw the shiny jets and low seniority number but maybe bit off more than you could chew, you'll have that failure on your record to explain for all your next job interviews.
If you make it through, you still have to face the reality that you're walking into a situation where the pilot group has an active card drive and a lot at stake (and if you dont know what that is, then case and point).
Respectfully, its gonna be over your head to manage that plus everything else. And I only say that because I've been there, but without the card drive part.
Tread carefully.
If you fail out of training because you saw the shiny jets and low seniority number but maybe bit off more than you could chew, you'll have that failure on your record to explain for all your next job interviews.
If you make it through, you still have to face the reality that you're walking into a situation where the pilot group has an active card drive and a lot at stake (and if you dont know what that is, then case and point).
Respectfully, its gonna be over your head to manage that plus everything else. And I only say that because I've been there, but without the card drive part.
Tread carefully.
08-07-2022, 01:28 PM
#3213
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,198
Originally Posted by Str8 Cash Homie
The transition from a CFI to a larger jet than an RJ has absolutely nothing to do with the washout rates. That’s reaching hard man. It’s the training footprint nothing more or less. Everything else you said I absolutely agree with but let’s please not act like there’s a huge difference between a 170/175 compared to a 190 lol (you receive a 170/190 type at some of the regionals that have large ERJ’s on your FAA cert).
A CFI has to learn all this plus all the things pertaining to 121 that are routine and second nature to an experienced pilot. And the unique threat with a place like breeze is that it's a young company where EVERYONE is new to their roles- so you as the pilot better have your *stuff* together and you better have a backbone when it comes to *certain challenges* pertaining to the operation.
When I was there one had to manage brand new kid FAs out of the house for the first time, every airport being a new airport, airplanes with conformity check challenges, endless ramp checks by the FAA and TSA, people new to roles as DX, MX, CS, OPS, GAs, southeast flying without WIFI/WSI.. we had the bandwidth to handle that BECAUSE we were mid to high time E170 captains, instructors, and LCAs..
Again, not the place for new 121s.. I doubt much has changed since last year on this front.
08-07-2022, 02:20 PM
#3214
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 194
Originally Posted by BobbyLeeSwagger
I'm not following you.. I'm not making a statement about the E175 vs 190. But since you brought it up.. sure it's a common type, but note that the FAA still requires an E170 pilot to consolidate on a 190. It's heavier and mainly longer, with 3 FAs and overwing exits, and in Breeze's case, some airplanes have autobrakes and some don't. This all introduces threats that are manageable to someone already experienced on the 170 because they have the bandwidth for the differences.
A CFI has to learn all this plus all the things pertaining to 121 that are routine and second nature to an experienced pilot. And the unique threat with a place like breeze is that it's a young company where EVERYONE is new to their roles- so you as the pilot better have your *stuff* together and you better have a backbone when it comes to *certain challenges* pertaining to the operation.
When I was there one had to manage brand new kid FAs out of the house for the first time, every airport being a new airport, airplanes with conformity check challenges, endless ramp checks by the FAA and TSA, people new to roles as DX, MX, CS, OPS, GAs, southeast flying without WIFI/WSI.. we had the bandwidth to handle that BECAUSE we were mid to high time E170 captains, instructors, and LCAs..
Again, not the place for new 121s.. I doubt much has changed since last year on this front.
A CFI has to learn all this plus all the things pertaining to 121 that are routine and second nature to an experienced pilot. And the unique threat with a place like breeze is that it's a young company where EVERYONE is new to their roles- so you as the pilot better have your *stuff* together and you better have a backbone when it comes to *certain challenges* pertaining to the operation.
When I was there one had to manage brand new kid FAs out of the house for the first time, every airport being a new airport, airplanes with conformity check challenges, endless ramp checks by the FAA and TSA, people new to roles as DX, MX, CS, OPS, GAs, southeast flying without WIFI/WSI.. we had the bandwidth to handle that BECAUSE we were mid to high time E170 captains, instructors, and LCAs..
Again, not the place for new 121s.. I doubt much has changed since last year on this front.
Originally Posted by BobbyLeeSwagger
it's a big jump to make going from a light twin to an E190 or bigger. RJ companies are more favorable places to transition.
Btw both SkyWest and Republic hires thousands of CFI’s a year and have 170/175’s with and without autobrakes.
As I said before, I agree with you for the most part. Prior 121 experience is always king. If Breeze wants to hire zero 121 time pilots they better start investing a significant amount of “straight cash” into that training department, homie.
08-07-2022, 02:36 PM
#3215
Moderator
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: MEC Chairman, Snack Basket Committee
Posts: 3,198
Straight cash indeed. Too bad CFI hiring was always baked into the business model. DN et al told us that from day 1. He had that cirrus time building thing he was gonna start up for essentially ab initio. All this means breeze will always underpay, or has plans to always underpay.
"Give breeze a chance" - meaning give breeze a chance to increase shareholder pockets..why ALPA is necessary. I was quietly convinced early on that Breeze never had intentions of opening the pocket book and/or rewarding those who took the risks to come pre launch.
"Give breeze a chance" - meaning give breeze a chance to increase shareholder pockets..why ALPA is necessary. I was quietly convinced early on that Breeze never had intentions of opening the pocket book and/or rewarding those who took the risks to come pre launch.
08-07-2022, 11:27 PM
#3216
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 134
Originally Posted by BobbyLeeSwagger
Straight cash indeed. Too bad CFI hiring was always baked into the business model. DN et al told us that from day 1. He had that cirrus time building thing he was gonna start up for essentially ab initio. All this means breeze will always underpay, or has plans to always underpay.
"Give breeze a chance" - meaning give breeze a chance to increase shareholder pockets..why ALPA is necessary. I was quietly convinced early on that Breeze never had intentions of opening the pocket book and/or rewarding those who took the risks to come pre launch.
"Give breeze a chance" - meaning give breeze a chance to increase shareholder pockets..why ALPA is necessary. I was quietly convinced early on that Breeze never had intentions of opening the pocket book and/or rewarding those who took the risks to come pre launch.
BLS for President
08-08-2022, 08:14 AM
#3217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 430
Any chance for someone who has an RATP with E170/190 type but not yet at 1500 hrs? I see the drop downs on the application online and feel like if I select under 1500 hours it will automatically reject me.
Just wondering since they are hiring people straight out of multi pistons… thanks for any info.
Just wondering since they are hiring people straight out of multi pistons… thanks for any info.
08-08-2022, 08:32 AM
#3218
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by planejoe
Any chance for someone who has an RATP with E170/190 type but not yet at 1500 hrs? I see the drop downs on the application online and feel like if I select under 1500 hours it will automatically reject me.
Just wondering since they are hiring people straight out of multi pistons… thanks for any info.
Just wondering since they are hiring people straight out of multi pistons… thanks for any info.
08-08-2022, 04:23 PM
#3220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Posts: 452
Originally Posted by Justsendit16
Is it true breeze has adjusted its training to be more tailored to low time pilots? Is there anything specific that has caused cfi’s to wash out of training?
No the training hasn’t been tailored. If you aren’t typed and have no 121 experience, good luck. The wash outs come from a) having no 121 experience, and b) not knowing the aircraft already and being placed into an environment where you’re not spoon fed
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