[Breeze] Airways
Not sure if this has already been discussed. Looks like he is in the funding stage. What is the proposed aircraft type? CS300s....
Read below: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-18/jetblue-founder-raising-funds-for-new-u-s-airline-report-says |
Moxy Airways
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Neeleman is a great starter, but a bad finisher.
So this is Alligiant with jb flare? |
Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand
(Post 2616618)
Neeleman is a great starter, but a bad finisher.
So this is Alligiant with jb flare? |
New airplane, new business model. I hope he's prepared to pay pilots a real premium, otherwise why go to a startup when the legacies will be hiring big-time.
Good luck with that. |
Watch us merge in 5 years, and all the guys rushing to this startup win the seniority lottery and slide in to the top of our list. That'd be my luck. Interesting timing with our fleet review and contract vote coming soon.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2616646)
New airplane, new business model. I hope he's prepared to pay pilots a real premium, otherwise why go to a startup when the legacies will be hiring big-time.
Good luck with that. |
According to the article, he wants 100M for start up, the same number raised to bankroll JetBlue 20 years earlier?
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616659)
I don't think finding pilots, at least not initial guys filling the left seat, will be a problem...plenty of regional guys will jump at the opportunity to get larger-than-regional jet PIC, and it will likely pay more than a regional captain makes. Furthermore, the notion of getting in on the ground floor with the possibility of winning the seniority lottery in organic growth or via an acquisition will attract people. Throw in the fact that they'll likely have regional hiring standards, ie 1500 hour CFIs for the right seat, I doubt they'll have any trouble filling both seats, unfortunately. Guess we will see.
The FAA will require experienced CA's for the left seat, they will not let a startup hire 2500-hour regional FO's and put them in the left seat of a new-design narrowbody on a new certificate. Startups typically also hire experienced pilots for the right seat initially, on the premise that they will upgrade very quickly. His B-Plan is going to need plenty of compensation for pilots. Or he's planning on staffing exclusively with pilots who have very significant black marks, ie felons, drunks, or documented incompetents, which would not bode well for safety (reference that learjet at TEB). |
Originally Posted by METO Guido
(Post 2616666)
According to the article, he wants 100M for start up, the same number raised to bankroll JetBlue 20 years earlier?
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At least Moxy has a vision. The current JetBlue has very little in common with the airline Neeleman started. I imagine he wants to distance himself as much as possible from the current company.
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Good luck getting gate space. This thing is dead already.
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Originally Posted by GreatStory
(Post 2616685)
Good luck getting gate space. This thing is dead already.
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2616675)
Nobody is going to take that deal if Big-Six is even a realistic option, no good reason to take a bunch or risks for a stepping stone unless you know the established majors won't be calling. Safer to just sit tight at your regional in most cases.
The FAA will require experienced CA's for the left seat, they will not let a startup hire 2500 hour regional FO's and put them in the left seat of a new-design narrowbody on a new certificate. Startups typically also hire experienced pilots for the right seat initially, on the premise that they will upgrade very quickly. His B-Plan is going to need plenty of compensation for pilots. Guess we will see in a couple years how it plays out. |
I swear if we announce an E2 after this...
CS is clearly the way to go. |
With the big 6 consolidating down to the big 3, I think it’s very likely to see some upstart competition on the Domestic side. We’ve already seen it happen on the International side
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Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 2616675)
Nobody is going to take that deal if Big-Six is even a realistic option
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616648)
Watch us merge in 5 years, and all the guys rushing to this startup win the seniority lottery and slide in to the top of our list. That'd be my luck. Interesting timing with our ***fleet review*** and contract vote coming soon.
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616677)
Won't need near the real estate/gates/landing fees that he needed with JetBlue if he's going point to point in secondary markets. I have to assume their overhead will be significantly lower. Fuel costs (or at least fuel quantity) will be significantly lower than his previous venture with significantly lower CASM. And I have to assume his financing terms for the 60 C series were probably pretty solid. Will be interesting to see how it works out.
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Originally Posted by AYLflyer
(Post 2616690)
I swear if we announce an E2 after this...
CS is clearly the way to go. |
JetBlue spinoff airline
Called “Moxy”. Will JB pilots be flying these planes? Or just codeshare.
JetBlue spinoff Moxy Airways has ordered 60 Bombardier C Series: report | Montreal Gazette |
Moxy Airlines?? CS300s? JetBlue?
JetBlue raising funds for a new Low- Cost Airline called Moxy Airways. Orders for 60 CS300s are in place to start flight in 2020. I guess management really likes the CSeries and sees their potential.
Is this where the profit is going? Are they trying to start another Airline and slowly unwind JetBlue Airways as we know it like Boeing did with their business? OR Is it just a scare to get the TA voted in? Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-06-18/jetblue-founder-raising-funds-for-new-u-s-airline-report-says |
Originally Posted by sux4u
(Post 2616729)
big six? Heard of big three, even big 4 with swa. Big six is new to me. Who falls under that umbrella?
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616648)
Watch us merge in 5 years, and all the guys rushing to this startup win the seniority lottery and slide in to the top of our list. That'd be my luck. Interesting timing with our fleet review and contract vote coming soon.
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My guess is that it is a totally seperate company that will probably do well. Might be a good stock to keep an eye on.
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Originally Posted by airbus300
(Post 2616820)
My guess is that it is a totally seperate company that will probably do well. Might be a good stock to keep an eye on.
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Originally Posted by MGMTiswatchingU
(Post 2616810)
JetBlue raising funds for a new Low- Cost Airline called Moxy Airways. Orders for 60 CS300s are in place to start flight in 2020. I guess management really likes the CSeries and sees their potential.
Is this where the profit is going? Are they trying to start another Airline and slowly unwind JetBlue Airways as we know it like Boeing did with their business? OR Is it just a scare to get the TA voted in? Link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ne-report-says No. Neeleman isn't associated with JB and wouldn't be angling to help the company out at the pilots' expense. Besides, JB doesn't need any help with getting this pilot group to vote for this POS TA. They hired the "right" pilots all these years. It'll pass with 65-70% yes votes. Minimum. |
Originally Posted by O2pilot
(Post 2616807)
Called “Moxy”. Will JB pilots be flying these planes? Or just codeshare.
JetBlue spinoff Moxy Airways has ordered 60 Bombardier C Series: report | Montreal Gazette Gup |
Did you original posters even read the article or even know who Neeleman is?
This has nothing to do with jb... |
Did you original posters even read the article or even know who Neeleman is?
This has nothing to do with jb... |
Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand
(Post 2616832)
Did you original posters even read the article or even know who Neeleman is?
This has nothing to do with jb... |
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616689)
Guessing there are plenty of guys with 3k-5k hours (1k-2k+ TPIC), at regionals waiting on majors to call. Drop the degree requirement (likely won't be one at Moxy) and that opens a door for guys with no degree who are otherwise qualified. I've never seen any "start-up airline pilot minimums" in any FAA rules, and I'd venture to say that a current 121 captain, who has an FAA ATP, and who passes an FAA type ride in the C Series, is qualified in the FAA's eyes to act as a captain at a pt 121 airline, start-up or otherwise.
Spirit can hire regional FO's with 2,000 hours and no PIC... Moxy cannot initially. There is no set regulatory requirement for CA experience at a startup, but that's part of what goes into issuing a 121 certificate... who are they issuing it to? If the FAA isn't happy with the initial cadre, they will not issue the cert. To make matters worse, most of the initial cadre will need to be LCA as well, and some of them will need previous LCA experience to prime the pump. If they decide the be the "non college degree airline" that might get them enough of an initial cadre. Or maybe not... how many senior regional lifers are going to give up massive seniority for a startup with an uncertain fate?
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616689)
I'd also venture to guess that Neeleman will pay Moxy CAs more than any regional will pay their CAs. If I was at a regional waiting for a major to call, I would possibly gamble with a start up while waiting, depending on the pay/benefits/bases/etc. The seniority, pay, and career expectations likely exceed that of any regional, with the exception of a guy having a possible near-term flow.
Only way around it might be to hire the initial cadre at a contractually guaranteed level of compensation, and then set a B scale for new hires later on. The usual startup trick of promising more later is probably not going to work in this climate. It worked in the past because airlines were going BK, and you could find CA's from L-US, Indy Air, Midwest, ACMIs, etc.
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616689)
And for the guys going straight to the left seat of Moxy, waiting for a big 6 to call, to then go be an FO again, may not be appealing.
Originally Posted by BeatNavy
(Post 2616689)
For guys in their first year at a regional, they could go be early FOs at Moxy with a potential quick upgrade, and make probably more money than they are making at said regional in either seat.
But with ULCC's, LCC's and even some legacies struggling with applicant quality, it's going to be even tougher for a startup. |
Originally Posted by MGMTiswatchingU
(Post 2616849)
I hope it doesn't. Good for discussion though.
The only thing really to discuss is how long would it take for JetBlue to receive their first CSeries (if they go that route), if Airbus/Bombardier are at capacity filling orders for other airlines. |
Originally Posted by nuball5
(Post 2616864)
The only thing really to discuss is how long would it take for JetBlue to receive their first CSeries (if they go that route), if Airbus/Bombardier are at capacity filling orders for other airlines.
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He may be planning on buying an existing 121 cert with aircraft and pilots, adding the CS300 would be easier than starting from scratch. I know of several supplementals that are for sale
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Originally Posted by Triggs
(Post 2616904)
He may be planning on buying an existing 121 cert with aircraft and pilots, adding the CS300 would be easier than starting from scratch. I know of several supplementals that are for sale
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Originally Posted by CaptCoolHand
(Post 2616832)
Did you original posters even read the article or even know who Neeleman is?
This has nothing to do with jb... |
Originally Posted by MGMTiswatchingU
(Post 2616868)
Next thing I'd guess is JetBlue might really see the opportunity in the CSeries and put an order in for here, instead of the E2s. If "Molly" can do the smaller airports with the CS300s, why not JetBlue?
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Originally Posted by David Puddy
(Post 2616978)
The CS300 is very versatile airplane - and Neeleman knows it. The E2 has fewer seats, less range and it can’t compare ergonomically to the CSeries. What’s remarkable is that Neeleman becomes a big proponent of the CSeries while simultaneously operating one of the largest E190 fleets out there with Azul in Brazil (and JB before that). I am betting Embraer ain’t too happy considering both JB and Spirit are evaluating both the CSeries and the E2 these days. This speculative order for 60 airframes is a BIG vote of confidence in the CS300 and what it can do...
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Originally Posted by O2pilot
(Post 2616947)
Why aren’t they focusing on growing JB instead of starting a shadow airline. Its all the same people running this. Maybe not a “spinoff” but that gets them around scope possibly.
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