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Old 10-04-2005, 06:23 AM   #1  
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Default DAL and NWA to start flying RJ's

I can't believe it. Is it true?

http://startribune.com/stories/1557/5644556.html

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Old 10-04-2005, 07:03 AM   #2  
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Geez, I mean, they needed to do something in place of the DC-9, but RJ's??? Wow!!! Haha, "Hey man, I used to be right seat on a DC-9, but I got the upgrade Northwest promised into the left seat of an RJ."
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Old 10-06-2005, 02:32 PM   #3  
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Exclamation Flying RJ's

I can't believe you guys
This attitude of, "commuter jet's" being somehow inferior to fly is a large part of why the industry is in a downward spiral. The whole commuter airlines flying for, but not part of, mainline carriers is a result of airline jet pilots looking there nose down on "prop jobs" and not willing to make little airlines a part of there "mainline operation". As a result, the little FBO operators flying Piper Navaho's and Beach 99's are now operating 50 to 70 place jets and looking at 100 seat aircraft to contract with their airline partners. These "non real airline aircraft" are being flown for considerably less than if the mainline carriers had to negotiate pays rates with the union representing their pilots.
So now we have a situation where large portions of every airline's flying is being flown by a pilot not part of the mainline seniority list and in many cases, multiple carriers are whipsawed into biding for the commuter flying. Add the increase in sophistication of the equipment flown and we have a situation where the industry believes it can pay a jet captain 60K, asking itself why it should pay any captain more if large numbers of (abet smaller) jets, flying it own colors are doing do for said money.
We have a real problem, mainly of our own doing. We got to stand firm, organize the non union upstarts and get everyone to stop selling their profession short. Its not just the commuters being operated on separate seniority lists but the Jet Blues and poor pay at 2nd terrier cargo operators that need to be addressed.
This may just be wishful thinking by a (graying) hair who came into the industry because of the great pay and benefits it used to provide. Someone's got the stop the freefall, you can't count on the public to stand up and call congress demanding pilots compensation not continue to fall. We have got to work this out for ourself's.
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Old 10-07-2005, 08:51 AM   #4  
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Well put. Comair is going to hear what DAL is looking for from us next week. I, for one, will not give an inch this time. How many more like me there are, I am not sure. There were 12 resignations just the other day.(1 day) I have heard that the DAL guys are pretty much saying the same thing. I hope that it is true.
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Old 10-07-2005, 07:23 PM   #5  
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Default PIlot Glut

Hey man,.

It is simple supply and demand. There are significantly more new pilots being created than jobs to fill. These desperate neophytes will take anything at the lowest legal wage to keep the dream alive. (They can't disappoint mom and dad after all the money they spent)
We have got to shut off the flow of newbies. Kill AOPA, stop student loans. Flame Flying Magazine. Regardless of organization, If we can't slow down the flood then very soon the price of an airline captain will be less than a UPS driver.

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Old 10-08-2005, 07:09 AM   #6  
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Angry kill AOPA

for the previous post, especially if you are a pilot, i cant see any logical reason why you would say to kill the AOPA, etc. i for one, am a civilian student moving up the ranks, recently going from private to instrument in 4 months... im sorry if my initiative gets in the way of your petty payscale, but some people (maybe like yourself) at one point dreamed of being a pilot... maybe there are too many pilots out there to fill the needs of airlines, but i can promise there are thousands of people out there that arent going for your job and just love to fly (remember, like you used to)... they dont want the money, flying alone does it for them... it is dissappointing to see someone say to kill the future of this great thing we have... maybe it is people like you that are dragging the industry down and not the civilian GA pilot like myself who are just trying to be happy in the cockpit living out a silly childhood dream...
.. if you cant tell, the previous post irritates me greatly
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:42 AM   #7  
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ucon, i'm with skyhigh. aopa is anti-proffesional airline pilot. I don't like it one bit
and I like less the morons thatstill vote for concesions at the regionals so they can get more jets (like comair),and upgrade faster so they can move on... move on where you morons????
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Old 10-08-2005, 08:43 AM   #8  
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Default Thank You

Okay, we all know the market place is changing, and in many respects, that sucks. But UConn - and others - are right. Yes, I am a member of ALPA - by force, but I am sick of hearing most of my peers talking like longshoremen. What, should we start slashing tires and breaking legs? I am just as sick as the Lorenzo management style of many airlines as everyone else, but the problem is not with the newhire wanting the same thing we all did. If that's the mindset, then I might as well tell my cheif pilot to only fly me with military pilots, since we were the ones who went through a real training system and ended up getting deployed and leaving our families for the sandbox while most of our 'bretheren' stayed home. God help me if i start to think that way. The fact is someone is always taking someone else's job. Let's figure out how to make money, but lets not forget our roots and love for flying.
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Old 10-08-2005, 12:43 PM   #9  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UConnQB14
for the previous post, especially if you are a pilot, i cant see any logical reason why you would say to kill the AOPA, etc. i for one, am a civilian student moving up the ranks, recently going from private to instrument in 4 months... im sorry if my initiative gets in the way of your petty payscale, but some people (maybe like yourself) at one point dreamed of being a pilot... maybe there are too many pilots out there to fill the needs of airlines, but i can promise there are thousands of people out there that arent going for your job and just love to fly (remember, like you used to)... they dont want the money, flying alone does it for them... it is dissappointing to see someone say to kill the future of this great thing we have... maybe it is people like you that are dragging the industry down and not the civilian GA pilot like myself who are just trying to be happy in the cockpit living out a silly childhood dream...
.. if you cant tell, the previous post irritates me greatly
It is not a petty payscale. This is our career, for us, for our families. We do love to fly. That, like you, is why we do it. We have choosen to make a career out of it. We expect to be paid what we are worth, and right now, it is not happening. If you are coming to the airlines, you too will be complaining in a very short period of time. YES, YOU WILL. I am only a few years removed from where you are. If you just want to fly, go get yourself an office job that will allow you to buy your own airplane, or at least rent one on a regular basis. If not, you might want to be a little supportive of the people who are determining what YOUR pay is going to be when you get here. I wish you best of luck...
...if you can't tell, the previous post irritates me a little bit.
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Old 10-08-2005, 11:57 PM   #10  
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Default Ucon

UConn,

Man you are the poster boy for exactly what is going wrong with this industry. Sure we all enjoy some parts of flying but mostly we are here to make a living. Today thanks to the flood of eager neophyte's flying for the regionals has decayed into a working hobby. The regionals have discovered that you guys will take quite a beating and not complain. I think they actually avoid hiring experienced people anymore since we might put up a fight. There are simply too many new pilots hitting the market.

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