Jumpseat Hypothetical
12-28-2018, 05:45 AM
#11
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,228
Originally Posted by Cargocapt
Help me solve an argument.
Crew member is scheduled positive space home after trip, company paid ticket. Duty day limitations requires travel on following day at end of trip. Crew stuck at hotel till following day. Earlier available flight home last day of trip after duty day ends. Company can't assign crew to fly home that day, it exceeds duty day.
Can crew jump, without using paid ticket on earlier flight (provided it does not affect other deadhead crew). Crew has dutied off and is now on personal time. Plenty of early flights home instead of another night in a hotel for new duty day.
What should happen to positive space ticket. Should company get refund for ticket or is this a no no.
Hypothetical creates a situation where company purchase ticket then tells crew to take any flight they want home. Obviously company would buy worst flight available to encourage pilots to chose other options. Then if paid ticket not used company can get ticket price refunded. Rinse and repeat. This is obviously a no no, but why.
Vague for a reason.
Crew member is scheduled positive space home after trip, company paid ticket. Duty day limitations requires travel on following day at end of trip. Crew stuck at hotel till following day. Earlier available flight home last day of trip after duty day ends. Company can't assign crew to fly home that day, it exceeds duty day.
Can crew jump, without using paid ticket on earlier flight (provided it does not affect other deadhead crew). Crew has dutied off and is now on personal time. Plenty of early flights home instead of another night in a hotel for new duty day.
What should happen to positive space ticket. Should company get refund for ticket or is this a no no.
Hypothetical creates a situation where company purchase ticket then tells crew to take any flight they want home. Obviously company would buy worst flight available to encourage pilots to chose other options. Then if paid ticket not used company can get ticket price refunded. Rinse and repeat. This is obviously a no no, but why.
Vague for a reason.
12-28-2018, 10:20 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: A320's
Posts: 169
I was on the jumpseat committee at my regional (no longer) and the only issue that came up with the jumpseat agreements was our scumbag airline trying to get people to jumpseat instead of buying a positive space ticket on another airline. That is a clear violation of the jumpseat. If you chose to bug out on your own while off duty, even on the same routing that your deadhead, that is personal travel and no different than any other commute. Tell your friend to call their rep if they have concerns.
12-28-2018, 10:25 AM
#13
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Name User
As far as getting refund, that would be a huge no-no. If caught the entire airline could lose jumpseat privileges.
This was a big red flag for me.
As it was explained, the company makes the travel option difficult to encourage the crew member to find alternatives. Then saves the fare on positive space by getting a refund on unused ticket. Company more often than not is spared the expense of the positive space ticket by encouraging crew members to jump.
Not FedEx, not my airline, but a jumpseater on my flight. I've got the crew members contact info and I would like to follow up why this is a big no no. To be honest I didn't have something specific to point to as to why this is a no no other than the obvious steal money from the airline which the offending airline (135) doesn't seem to understand according to the crew member.
Last edited by Cargocapt; 12-28-2018 at 10:56 AM.
12-28-2018, 01:35 PM
#15
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Pogey Bait
Why are you asking this on APC? Ask your own company about this.
It was a conversation I had with the crew member who was jumpseating. As the crew member explained things I had a 'say what now' moment.
12-29-2018, 06:24 AM
#16
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,244
Originally Posted by NK Bumble Bee
I was on the jumpseat committee at my regional (no longer) and the only issue that came up with the jumpseat agreements was our scumbag airline trying to get people to jumpseat instead of buying a positive space ticket on another airline. That is a clear violation of the jumpseat. If you chose to bug out on your own while off duty, even on the same routing that your deadhead, that is personal travel and no different than any other commute. Tell your friend to call their rep if they have concerns.
a) An EMPLOYER is intentionally repositioning folks for company needs via an OFFLINE JS (or "encouraging" that). Technically an employer can reposition you on your own JS unless your CBA prohibits this (most do).
b) A pilot who has OFFLINE PS and takes the same or earlier flight via JS on the SAME offline carrier, and someone (pilot or employer) obtains a refund. This is the huge no-no because it basically denies the offline carrier a revenue opportunity, while using the PS to "reserve" an empty seat which is then occupied via JS privilege.
12-29-2018, 02:06 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
Posts: 5,904
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Yes, this whole thing is only an issue if...
a) An EMPLOYER is intentionally repositioning folks for company needs via an OFFLINE JS (or "encouraging" that). Technically an employer can reposition you on your own JS unless your CBA prohibits this (most do).
b) A pilot who has OFFLINE PS and takes the same or earlier flight via JS on the SAME offline carrier, and someone (pilot or employer) obtains a refund. This is the huge no-no because it basically denies the offline carrier a revenue opportunity, while using the PS to "reserve" an empty seat which is then occupied via JS privilege.
a) An EMPLOYER is intentionally repositioning folks for company needs via an OFFLINE JS (or "encouraging" that). Technically an employer can reposition you on your own JS unless your CBA prohibits this (most do).
b) A pilot who has OFFLINE PS and takes the same or earlier flight via JS on the SAME offline carrier, and someone (pilot or employer) obtains a refund. This is the huge no-no because it basically denies the offline carrier a revenue opportunity, while using the PS to "reserve" an empty seat which is then occupied via JS privilege.
12-29-2018, 04:34 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 291
How about a different spin on a jumpseat question. Supposed you are on a positive space ticket and the flight is oversold and travel vouchers are being offered to take a later flight. On boarding it is discovered that two people were assigned one seat. If the jumpseat is not in use would it be ok to offer to take the travel voucher and sit in the unoccupied jumpseat on the same flight in order to accommodate the passenger (child with his family) that was assigned an already occupied seat.
12-30-2018, 01:51 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Position: retired 767(dl)
Posts: 5,724
Originally Posted by Hawaii808
How about a different spin on a jumpseat question. Supposed you are on a positive space ticket and the flight is oversold and travel vouchers are being offered to take a later flight. On boarding it is discovered that two people were assigned one seat. If the jumpseat is not in use would it be ok to offer to take the travel voucher and sit in the unoccupied jumpseat on the same flight in order to accommodate the passenger (child with his family) that was assigned an already occupied seat.
12-30-2018, 02:01 PM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 303
There is nothing in 117 that would prevent you from flying positive space and/or as a dead head AFTER your duty day has ended regardless if you timed out or not.
So that said why would a company be putting someone on rest to do that? This question seems irrelevant to me. What am I missing?
So that said why would a company be putting someone on rest to do that? This question seems irrelevant to me. What am I missing?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
