Taco280AI

Most people put in their time and pay their dues whether it is military, corporate or 121. Complaining about others isn't going to help you achieve your goals.

I know nothing of the corporate flying world, so won't say anything about that. I do know 121 is the easiest job I've had. Military you get less flying hours, but there is a lot more involved than simply flying and if you haven't done it then you really have no idea.

The head scratcher I can understand is the 23 year old that goes to mainline with 2500 hours while good 6000 hour pilots can't get a call. Does mom or dad work there? Do they check a box that gets certain consideration? Did they simply luck out? Who knows. But knocking them doesn't help you out.

rightside02

To add to the million repeated responses, I happened to fly with a Alpa training rep at United , he said the the guys that have been at XYZ regional for 15 plus years have the highest failure/termination rate. Said the numbers just don’t lie . Old dogs stuck in their ways and have a harder time learning new tricks I guess. I was pretty surprised by the numbers he was showing me of guys having problems and their backgrounds. Meanwhile the young kids surely
Don’t have the same history , will learn anything you show them . I mean give a 2 year old a iPad , 30 seconds later he works it better than you. Meanwhile Tom 57 who still uses DOS 2.0 gets overwhelmed by it .

The OP may not have any issues in training and may be a star , but the guys before you have not paved a pretty path for you , it seems.

Best of luck , frustrating I know . Keep at it .

Airbum

[QUOTE=PotatoChip;2750628]Probably after they’ve been placed in academic probation... you know, like a university. More to the point is that fact that they do fail students on checkrides, and those will affect their career.[/QUOTE

I went to a 141 school, It was pay your money until you pass. The trainee was the person paying all the bills and supporting the school.

Entry requirements for a 141 school where much lower the Navy/USAF fixed wing training. If you could pass and class 3 and pay money you where a student at a 141 program.

TeamSasquatch

I’m glad I’ve been to Gillette a few times! Never figured it would weigh so heavily in my career goals!

rickair7777

All true.

If they've been in the same seat in the same jet for 10+ years they are likely to have trouble in training, especially if they're much over age 40.

Once they get on line there have been a lot of issues with that demographic not adapting to a new culture, and especially their new role as a new-hire FO.


You have to go full-court-press, network, job fairs, keep the apps updated. Get a new type if you can. Volunteer for union, professional-related organizations, etc. Get in shape, get groomed, and get a new suit. That first impression is huge, and it doesn't have to be "old" or "tired".

Hiring is just starting to ramp up so the opportunity will come , but of course it's better to get hired sooner rather than later.

rickair7777

Wish in one hand, poop in the other, see which one fills up first.

The best majors essentially feel they have plenty of qualified (ie safe) pilot applications, so they are trying to cherry-pick those who fit their version of the "good employee" template.

Military officers often went to "name brand" schools, often on scholarships, often athletes, usually have a masters, always have leadership, management, and organizational skills. If they've completed ten years, they demonstrated a continuously upward progression in skill, responsibility, and leadership. That's all good "organizational fit" stuff. I have know civilian-only RJ drivers who had similar resumes, they generally get scooped up by majors pretty quickly too.

Mil pilots are not all chuck yeager, it's possible to be a "good enough" military pilot and still be a good organizational player. Military "good enough" is probably also going to equate to civilian "good enough". Fighter/attack pilots are by definition selected from the higher ranked primary training output, they have a very busy mission (ie lots of work and training), and almost all of them today actually do both fighter and attack missions, so really two jobs. And more aerobatic maneuver flight than most other communities. If you want to prove yourself as an aviator there's really no better way to do it. Flying your line in the right seat of an RJ and playing lots of video games on your days off doesn't really stack up (yes I had an RJ FO complain about how the fighter pilots were getting all the jobs... he felt that as some sort of "ranked" video gamer his skills were better than a fighter pilot).

As I said, civilians with similar resumes have no problem getting major jobs. Even without fighter time.

rickair7777

Keep in mind if you were anywhere near them, they were not the cream of military aviation, or not current, or not both...

They are not helping themselves but transmitting attitude. Guys like that might be around longer than they think.

Airway

That "backwater regional flying" comment...I can't believe an airline put you on their hiring team. That's not only offensive, but also incredibly ignorant.

I get that you prefer the military pilots, but your reasons for that might have a poor foundation.

Some of the best experience I got was flying turboprops into those "backwater" airports late at night after honing in on the NDB and keying the runway lights to land, in a crew environment.

Yeah pretty worthless stuff

If you don't think those experiences contributed to what I do at the majors, you're mistaken.

CoefficientX

After 19 years in the right seat of my major airline I can say I see no difference in airmanship between civilian and military. I’ve flown with excellent captains, military and civilian and I’ve also flown with not so excellent captains, military and civilians.

Let’s not make the assumption that all pilots tried to get in the military and only the best made it. There are plenty of outstanding pilots that had no desire whatsoever to join the military.

Lots of chest thumping going on here. After 19 years of observation from the right seat I can say to all the ex military guys who think just because you are ex military you’re better than the civilian guys........you aren’t.

Poser765

no might. They do.