American or Southwest?
04-24-2019, 06:30 PM
#1
On Reserve
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 10
American or Southwest?
Looking for some unfiltered, down to the brass tacks, from the school of hard knocks, career advice:
I’ve heard of a guy, who knows someone, who has a CJO from Southwest and American Airlines. The domiciles of BOTH companies line up with where he wants to live (so that is not a point of contention between the two). Things that have been identified as pros/cons are listed below:
-Pros of American: 1. SENIORITY like a boss (their pilots are old), and 2. a wide variety of airplanes to fly.
-Pros of Southwest: 1. Absolutely rock-solid company from a financial standpoint (NEVER furloughed and NEVER gone bankrupt), 2. very well run, and 3. the people are extremely nice.
-Cons of American: 1. Arguably -shaky- financials (high debt, low return on assets, and a CEO who claims that it is “impossible” to lose money), 2. a lot of merged airlines/pilots who a grumpy about old business, 3. a history of furloughs, 4. Poor customer service recently (ranked below SPIRIT for Christ sakes)
-Cons of Southwest: 1. First officer for life (or at least 8-10 years), 2. Boeing 737 for LIFE (literally).
Anyways, looking for input. It’s a no pressure decision that is only going to have implications for the next 30+ years…
I’ve heard of a guy, who knows someone, who has a CJO from Southwest and American Airlines. The domiciles of BOTH companies line up with where he wants to live (so that is not a point of contention between the two). Things that have been identified as pros/cons are listed below:
-Pros of American: 1. SENIORITY like a boss (their pilots are old), and 2. a wide variety of airplanes to fly.
-Pros of Southwest: 1. Absolutely rock-solid company from a financial standpoint (NEVER furloughed and NEVER gone bankrupt), 2. very well run, and 3. the people are extremely nice.
-Cons of American: 1. Arguably -shaky- financials (high debt, low return on assets, and a CEO who claims that it is “impossible” to lose money), 2. a lot of merged airlines/pilots who a grumpy about old business, 3. a history of furloughs, 4. Poor customer service recently (ranked below SPIRIT for Christ sakes)
-Cons of Southwest: 1. First officer for life (or at least 8-10 years), 2. Boeing 737 for LIFE (literally).
Anyways, looking for input. It’s a no pressure decision that is only going to have implications for the next 30+ years…
04-24-2019, 06:57 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2016
Position: A350 CA
Posts: 295
Originally Posted by Skypilot11
Looking for some unfiltered, down to the brass tacks, from the school of hard knocks, career advice:
I’ve heard of a guy, who knows someone, who has a CJO from Southwest and American Airlines. The domiciles of BOTH companies line up with where he wants to live (so that is not a point of contention between the two). Things that have been identified as pros/cons are listed below:
-Pros of American: 1. SENIORITY like a boss (their pilots are old), and 2. a wide variety of airplanes to fly.
-Pros of Southwest: 1. Absolutely rock-solid company from a financial standpoint (NEVER furloughed and NEVER gone bankrupt), 2. very well run, and 3. the people are extremely nice.
-Cons of American: 1. Arguably -shaky- financials (high debt, low return on assets, and a CEO who claims that it is “impossible” to lose money), 2. a lot of merged airlines/pilots who a grumpy about old business, 3. a history of furloughs, 4. Poor customer service recently (ranked below SPIRIT for Christ sakes)
-Cons of Southwest: 1. First officer for life (or at least 8-10 years), 2. Boeing 737 for LIFE (literally).
Anyways, looking for input. It’s a no pressure decision that is only going to have implications for the next 30+ years…
I’ve heard of a guy, who knows someone, who has a CJO from Southwest and American Airlines. The domiciles of BOTH companies line up with where he wants to live (so that is not a point of contention between the two). Things that have been identified as pros/cons are listed below:
-Pros of American: 1. SENIORITY like a boss (their pilots are old), and 2. a wide variety of airplanes to fly.
-Pros of Southwest: 1. Absolutely rock-solid company from a financial standpoint (NEVER furloughed and NEVER gone bankrupt), 2. very well run, and 3. the people are extremely nice.
-Cons of American: 1. Arguably -shaky- financials (high debt, low return on assets, and a CEO who claims that it is “impossible” to lose money), 2. a lot of merged airlines/pilots who a grumpy about old business, 3. a history of furloughs, 4. Poor customer service recently (ranked below SPIRIT for Christ sakes)
-Cons of Southwest: 1. First officer for life (or at least 8-10 years), 2. Boeing 737 for LIFE (literally).
Anyways, looking for input. It’s a no pressure decision that is only going to have implications for the next 30+ years…
04-24-2019, 06:59 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Position: Captain
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by NYC Pilot
If your "friend" has to ask this question, tell him to do himself a favor and go to Southwest. Leave the American Airlines spot open for a person who aspires to be there and not have to think twice about their decision between a real airline vs. a regional...
dang....
ouch
04-24-2019, 07:17 PM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by NYC Pilot
If your "friend" has to ask this question, tell him to do himself a favor and go to Southwest. Leave the American Airlines spot open for a person who aspires to be there and not have to think twice about their decision between a real airline vs. a regional...
Couldn’t be happier. I wouldn’t leave my current situation for ANY airline. That said, not everyone is looking for the same thing. Some people just have to fly a widebody or wear a hat. Honestly though, if commuting is not going to happen at either, it would be hard to turn down the potential seniority progression at AA.
Two very good choices. I don’t think the OP can go wrong with either.
Last edited by Skyward; 04-24-2019 at 07:41 PM.
04-24-2019, 07:18 PM
#6
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,261
Culture vs. essentially guaranteed massive seniority progression and a widebody CA seat which will pay $500K+?
Hmmm.
I don't really like AA culture at all, but at some point massive seniority and money prevails. The balance between AA and SWA reached and exceeded that point a long time ago.
I guess you could consider the *relative* seniority of your preferred domicile for each company. That might skew the equation one way or the other. But junior bases for all companies tend to be in the NE, getting more senior as you go down and left.
Hmmm.
I don't really like AA culture at all, but at some point massive seniority and money prevails. The balance between AA and SWA reached and exceeded that point a long time ago.
I guess you could consider the *relative* seniority of your preferred domicile for each company. That might skew the equation one way or the other. But junior bases for all companies tend to be in the NE, getting more senior as you go down and left.
04-24-2019, 07:23 PM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Tell your friend the only sure thing is what exists now isnt gona exist in the same form in 20 or 30 years.
Make a decision and dont look back. If the choice is swa....invest in the best ANR headset money can buy.
And a gel pad whoopie cushion.
As to the 'what ifs' the wheels come off your friends career.....a comparative look at the life insurance and long term disability and retirement savings accrual rates would be prudent.
And in a worst case his employer closes up shop and follow on employment becomes necessary....a swa choice will leave you with a single type rating in the marketplace.
At AA.....you will likely have in short order both of the worlds most numerous NB types...and long term...all the in demand WB type ratings.
Brass tacks.
Make a decision and dont look back. If the choice is swa....invest in the best ANR headset money can buy.
And a gel pad whoopie cushion.
As to the 'what ifs' the wheels come off your friends career.....a comparative look at the life insurance and long term disability and retirement savings accrual rates would be prudent.
And in a worst case his employer closes up shop and follow on employment becomes necessary....a swa choice will leave you with a single type rating in the marketplace.
At AA.....you will likely have in short order both of the worlds most numerous NB types...and long term...all the in demand WB type ratings.
Brass tacks.
Last edited by BobZ; 04-24-2019 at 07:38 PM.
04-25-2019, 12:24 AM
#9
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 56
All the cons listed for American will make it a miserable place to work for his/her entire career. That’s pretty cruddy, despite the wages or seniority. Not to mention the lack of direction by management over there. One only needs to browse 10 random threads in each airlines APC forum to see what each pilot group is all about.
04-25-2019, 03:10 AM
#10
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 271
I love being at AA. I dont see that many issues with culture. I do however see that I am below 50% in more than one base already after just over a year on property.
With that said, 30 years is a long time. If I was younger I might go with SWA because of the stability piece. AA debt worries me a little but I am older so I really dont care if things go south.
With that said, 30 years is a long time. If I was younger I might go with SWA because of the stability piece. AA debt worries me a little but I am older so I really dont care if things go south.
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