Pilot shortage? really?
05-02-2007, 11:58 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Left Seat, Toyota Tacoma
Posts: 593
Originally Posted by atpcliff
Hi!
Boeing is starting a new subsidiary that is spearheading a new system of training pilots. They are starting in Australia. Boeing says that, worldwide, there is a need for 17,000 airline pilots per year, for the next 20 years.
cliff
YIP
Boeing is starting a new subsidiary that is spearheading a new system of training pilots. They are starting in Australia. Boeing says that, worldwide, there is a need for 17,000 airline pilots per year, for the next 20 years.
cliff
YIP
05-02-2007, 12:36 PM
#22
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: C-12
Posts: 29
Originally Posted by rickair7777
But if you're going to drive a 73 or an RJ into a multi-use non-Bravo airport on a Sunday afternoon in SOCAL you'd darn well better have a very good, instinctive handle on how GA works...those bug smashers don't always do what they are supposed to, or expected to.
05-02-2007, 09:28 PM
#23
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Don't worry
Originally Posted by rickair7777
The concept of training airline pilots with little real-world experience might work overseas where general aviation is non-existent. A long over-water flight terminating in a straight-in ILS in through Bravo may not require much experience in the system...
But if you're going to drive a 73 or an RJ into a multi-use non-Bravo airport on a Sunday afternoon in SOCAL you'd darn well better have a very good, instinctive handle on how GA works...those bug smashers don't always do what they are supposed to, or expected to.
But if you're going to drive a 73 or an RJ into a multi-use non-Bravo airport on a Sunday afternoon in SOCAL you'd darn well better have a very good, instinctive handle on how GA works...those bug smashers don't always do what they are supposed to, or expected to.
SkyHigh
05-03-2007, 07:08 AM
#24
Feeling blessed.
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: Was I finally in the right place at the right time?
Posts: 537
How do you train for DCA River Visual 19, the LGA Expressway Visual 31, or the MDW 31C circle to 22L in a sim?
It can't be done. You only learn it through experience. Sims don't provide it, and the realism is lacking even with today's technology. The training environment is quite different from the real world. I know, I'm sitting seat support watching someone with less experience than me upgrading to captain. (He's senior to me.) He's been struggling.
If I ever make captain again, and I'm flying with one of these "graduates" they won't be doing much flying.
It can't be done. You only learn it through experience. Sims don't provide it, and the realism is lacking even with today's technology. The training environment is quite different from the real world. I know, I'm sitting seat support watching someone with less experience than me upgrading to captain. (He's senior to me.) He's been struggling.
If I ever make captain again, and I'm flying with one of these "graduates" they won't be doing much flying.
05-03-2007, 12:52 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: L Side
Posts: 409
I can't confirm or deny that report about EVA air. However, I would wager that
1) they hired and trained that pilot from 0hrs- to 747 F/O
2) he/she never spent a dime of their own money on training
3) he/she worked not even one day for free trying to build time
4) he/she did not spend years of their life flying at even lower rates waiting to make it to a 747 for $50K/yr.
After flying at EVA for 3-5 yrs that pilot has much heavy experience and is marketable on the worldwide market for one of the better paying carriers or for contract work.
If what they told you is true, then that is not a great gig until you put in the context of the typical US pilot- out of pocket expenditure for training, sub-poverty level life as an instructor and then their $20K/yr job at a regional. The average US pilot will not see $50K/yr until they make Capt. at one of the better regionals.
1) they hired and trained that pilot from 0hrs- to 747 F/O
2) he/she never spent a dime of their own money on training
3) he/she worked not even one day for free trying to build time
4) he/she did not spend years of their life flying at even lower rates waiting to make it to a 747 for $50K/yr.
After flying at EVA for 3-5 yrs that pilot has much heavy experience and is marketable on the worldwide market for one of the better paying carriers or for contract work.
If what they told you is true, then that is not a great gig until you put in the context of the typical US pilot- out of pocket expenditure for training, sub-poverty level life as an instructor and then their $20K/yr job at a regional. The average US pilot will not see $50K/yr until they make Capt. at one of the better regionals.
05-03-2007, 02:44 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 FO FDX, C130 ANG
Posts: 538
Assume this
Originally Posted by dundem
I can't confirm or deny that report about EVA air. However, I would wager that
1) they hired and trained that pilot from 0hrs- to 747 F/O
2) he/she never spent a dime of their own money on training
3) he/she worked not even one day for free trying to build time
4) he/she did not spend years of their life flying at even lower rates waiting to make it to a 747 for $50K/yr.
After flying at EVA for 3-5 yrs that pilot has much heavy experience and is marketable on the worldwide market for one of the better paying carriers or for contract work.
If what they told you is true, then that is not a great gig until you put in the context of the typical US pilot- out of pocket expenditure for training, sub-poverty level life as an instructor and then their $20K/yr job at a regional. The average US pilot will not see $50K/yr until they make Capt. at one of the better regionals.
1) they hired and trained that pilot from 0hrs- to 747 F/O
2) he/she never spent a dime of their own money on training
3) he/she worked not even one day for free trying to build time
4) he/she did not spend years of their life flying at even lower rates waiting to make it to a 747 for $50K/yr.
After flying at EVA for 3-5 yrs that pilot has much heavy experience and is marketable on the worldwide market for one of the better paying carriers or for contract work.
If what they told you is true, then that is not a great gig until you put in the context of the typical US pilot- out of pocket expenditure for training, sub-poverty level life as an instructor and then their $20K/yr job at a regional. The average US pilot will not see $50K/yr until they make Capt. at one of the better regionals.
Like I said, again; "This is what you want to compete with in the US?"
05-03-2007, 04:37 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: L Side
Posts: 409
So based on this one example, is it your contention that the rest of the world can't wait to get their hands on the jobs here in the US? Bear in mind that (on average) there isn't a pilot surplus in other parts of the as there is here and that this particular guy is already an American that would be returning home.
Do you think that there will be a mass-exodus at BA, AF, LH, CX, etc. for our very lucrative and high paying jobs here? For every EVA there are many better airlines out there. I worked out of the US for a while and debated hard before returning- believe me it was a close call. I still have friends scattered around the globe and they are all treated better and paid better than I am flying similar equipment.
Did he by chance mention that he shouldn't have left Mesa?
Do you think that there will be a mass-exodus at BA, AF, LH, CX, etc. for our very lucrative and high paying jobs here? For every EVA there are many better airlines out there. I worked out of the US for a while and debated hard before returning- believe me it was a close call. I still have friends scattered around the globe and they are all treated better and paid better than I am flying similar equipment.
Did he by chance mention that he shouldn't have left Mesa?
05-04-2007, 12:19 AM
#29
Indian Takeout Driver
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: FAR part 347 (91+121+135)
Posts: 1,566
Originally Posted by Flaps50
Actually this guy was about 40 years old, and came up the US way (lived in Florida) worked for Mesa prior to Omni, then left Omni for Eva based on a promise from Eva that it was such a great place to work. Now he says that he should have never left Omni.
Like I said, again; "This is what you want to compete with in the US?"
Like I said, again; "This is what you want to compete with in the US?"
05-04-2007, 12:29 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 FO FDX, C130 ANG
Posts: 538
Cheap Labor!
Originally Posted by dundem
So based on this one example, is it your contention that the rest of the world can't wait to get their hands on the jobs here in the US? Bear in mind that (on average) there isn't a pilot surplus in other parts of the as there is here and that this particular guy is already an American that would be returning home.
Do you think that there will be a mass-exodus at BA, AF, LH, CX, etc. for our very lucrative and high paying jobs here? For every EVA there are many better airlines out there. I worked out of the US for a while and debated hard before returning- believe me it was a close call. I still have friends scattered around the globe and they are all treated better and paid better than I am flying similar equipment.
Did he by chance mention that he shouldn't have left Mesa?
Do you think that there will be a mass-exodus at BA, AF, LH, CX, etc. for our very lucrative and high paying jobs here? For every EVA there are many better airlines out there. I worked out of the US for a while and debated hard before returning- believe me it was a close call. I still have friends scattered around the globe and they are all treated better and paid better than I am flying similar equipment.
Did he by chance mention that he shouldn't have left Mesa?
Why don't we just give all the jobs away in America to the lowest bidder? We need to be up in arms about this as a profession/industry because no one else will be effected like us. Most other quality jobs need a green card or citizenship to work in the US, but not flying if cabotage goes through because they aren't based here. This will be another "job Americans' aren't willing to do" someday so people can fly around for 10 bucks a crack.
I know this example is a stretch, but man we need to get the will to fight in this career again! Let's stop rolling over and stand up for ourselves! Even slavery was justified for most of mankinds legacy. The world is about cheap labor!
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