Blackhawk

First, the pay at K4 won't be quite what you get at a legacy. The big difference is retirement, but there will be a push for it in this next contract. It's a trade-off for those who commute, however. Especially if you chose to live in a remote location. If you're commuting 3-4 times a month and losing 1-2 days for each commute, how much money is more time at home and not sweating a commute worth? For some it's priceless.

Pay for extra crew members. If you have 4 crew members on a leg, all four of you are paid for it. I may sit in a crewmember seat for 2 hours of a 8 hour leg and sleep in a bunk the rest of the time, but I'm paid for 8 hours.

Reference reserve rules. Reserve is very different here. You are given your 16-day schedule. In some cases, it is all reserve. In other cases, you may have a reserve period thrown on during your line. This last part is not a bad thing as you are given 4 hours of pay for it. Pull 4 reserve periods in a 16-day trip and it's another 16 hours of pay. I've sat reserve everywhere from Honolulu, Hong Kong, Anchorage, Istanbul, Leipzig...

As a junior pilot, I credit a little over 70-80 hours/month. So not the 100 hours it used to be, but not bad.

It's a different lifestyle that may work well for some, not for others.

cal73

Not United.

Inability to advance book and hold Jumpseat to get to work.
Inability for online UAL pilots to use empty FA jumpseat on UAL aircraft.

FTv3

Here’s UPS policies:

Ability to reserve the jumpseat(s) - yes, 13 day out, first come first served. 4+ Jumpseats on all our planes.

Positive space options - if associated pairing has a CML deadhead* to or from work, you can deviate and choose your own flights; UPS will pay up to the cost they were going to pay for the scheduled flight. Also available when picking up time and a half OT trips. *We don’t have as many of these types of trips as FX does.

Commuter hotel options - basically none.

Full reimbursement of airport parking fees - yes in very specific and rare cases, otw no, but like FedEx you can park at the UPS facilities.

Protection: basically if you are on a UPS plane heading to work and anything happens making you late or miss a sign in, you are free and clear (but not pay protected for what you miss). There is also language about being on a ‘commercial flight,’ to work and having the same protections. No backups neede, no time limit requirements, nada. From what I’ve heard from guys who’ve had to use the policy, you apparently get a call from one of our “management,” folk asking what happened, then they give you the canned message to make sure to commute more responsibly in the future.

We have guys commuting from all over the world.

FXLAX

Commute more responsively next time? So if you follow management’s commuting policy and don’t make it, it’s not considered commuting responsively? If their commute policy is not responsible enough for them, why don’t they change it to a level of responsibility that is satisfactory to them? Or just say thanks to the pilot for following their commute policy?

FXLAX

Yes, this has saved me once. But many times, this provision doesn’t apply. What if your deviation is just one leg to your layover? Should we instead deviate to the second leg of the original DH just for the protection on that leg? In essence, unless your deviation just so happens to go through your the city of the second leg on your original DH, its useless.

My question is, what’s the difference whether you catch up to the second leg? Why not protect the entire deviation regardless of whether you catch up to the second leg? This policy is completely inferior to legacy airlines.

FTv3

They’re (presumably) required to say something so we smile, nod, thank them for their time and continue our day.

UPS also has the ‘fly part of a scheduled DH and be protected’ language.

FXLAX

I understand what you’re saying. But do they say any similar comments when pilots follow other parts of the contract? Or is it just understood without saying that both parties just complied with the contract and are continuing on their respective days?

Rhetorical, it just sparked a nerve with me because of similar experiences with past employers.

sailingfun

You have still lost me on how this gets you more pay. Everyone gets paid for the entire flight at every airline I am aware of when the crew is augmented.

Blackhawk

That’s all it is.
One thing that does need to be fixed is pay protection for trips. You are pay protected for a line, but not for a trip. It’s not unusual to lose trips for IOE or... even worse... other pilots will try to take part of your line. No pay protection for that leg if either happens.

Skyward

I hate it when the company acts like they're doing you a favor or tries to intimidate for something that’s in the contract.