Voski

What is the viability of the ultra-low cost carrier model in the U.S.? As companies like Spirit and Frontier continue to expand their fleet of A320neo aircraft, the profitability of these airlines in the current U.S. economy is undeniable. However, what are the pros and cons of their business model going forward? Are they a threat to the market share and dominance of the legacy carriers?

I'm genuinely interested because the model seems to be successful throughout Europe, however, I wonder if the ULCC model is filling a gap in the market or if it's eroding the profits of carriers like Delta, United, and American.

Moreover, pilots seeking jobs at major carriers have a lot of options nowadays and will hopefully continue to see a hot job market for a few years ahead. The ULCCs seem like great options and alternatives to the 'Big 6,' but I have to question whether these airlines have the career stability (as much as that exists in the airlines) that the Big 6 have...

rickair7777

1. ULCCs are struggling badly in Europe, with the exception of maybe three or so.

2. Long haul ULCCs are struggling even worse. They won't survive the next downturn in general.

3. The US has a domestic market for ULCCs, but they're not taking over. Most travelers don't want to put up with that crap, the just spend an extra $ 30-80. Also lucrative business and frequent flyers want miles they can bank. For vacation. In Europe, not Cleveland.

It's a legit business niche in the US, and if the pay and domiciles work for you there's no reason not to hang your hat at one here.

Qotsaautopilot

Macy’s and Walmart
McDonalds and Ruth’s Chris
Spirit and insert airline

Everyone can coexist.

Omniscient

“Most customers don’t want to put up with that crap”

Seriously? Have you seen the product by some of the legacy folk? Unless you’re up front on AA, I would rank that ride on par with Spirit or Frontier.

Correction....up front on an old Airways plane out of CLT is pretty bad too. And I hear Parker is cutting the legroom in first class as well.

Regression to the mean is already underway as legacy carriers try to adapt ULCC concepts for themselves, including shrinking seat pitch, credit card sales, checked bag fees etc. How much longer do you expect a carry on to be free at AA or UAL?

Omniscient

The problem with this comparison is that AA, for example, isn’t Ruth’s Chris.

McDonald’s and Steak and Shake is probably a better comparison.

Walmart and Target.

This notion that coach at a Legacy is such a better experience is as outdated as some of the very aircraft these Legacy airlines fly.

rickair7777

Forever... if you buy a normal ticket.

AA is kind of the worst case. ULCCs are a tapping a new customer base, they are not converting normal pax (upper middle class on average) into ULCC cannon fodder.

The legacies are competing by offering ULCC -equivalent packages in the rear cabin. They're trying to tap some of the market the ULCCs pioneered. As long as our traditional passenger base is willing to pay for traditional services, that's what they'll get.

Miles (that are valid for international travel) are still a huge factor, ESPECIALLY for business travelers who often have some say in the airline they fly (I always did in the white collar world, company had arrangements with three airlines, I could use any one of those and I stuck to DL for the miles).

My wife tried ULCC a la carte once. She learned her lesson.

Worst case, more rows in our cabins get converted to "basic" fare. Not much else will change.

ULLI

Funny planes are still running 90% full guess you are off on that point, even during economic downturns.
Spending extra $30-80 on a child (you can easily multiply that by 2 or 3 depending how many you have) that doesn't need carry on or a checked bag doesn't make any financial sense. That's me thought, I don't like to waste money.

SonicFlyer

Honestly the seats on Frontier are bigger than in coach of DL/UA/AA

SonicFlyer

This video does a good job of explaining it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnfoTAxhpzQ

rickair7777

I agree F9 has nice seats.