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Southwest Airlines commits to fleetwide RNP capability

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Southwest Airlines commits to fleetwide RNP capability

Old 05-10-2007, 07:08 PM
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Default Southwest Airlines commits to fleetwide RNP capability

Calling it a "tipping point for performance-based navigation," US FAA Administrator Marion Blakey said at a briefing at Washington National Airport yesterday that Southwest Airlines informed the agency that it will equip its entire fleet for RNP, including retrofitting its 737 Classics.

The airline confirmed the plan, which Air Transport Assn. President and CEO James May said was an indication that "the entire industry is migrating as rapidly as possible to NextGen."

A Southwest spokesperson told ATWOnline that the carrier "has made the decision to move forward internally, but all the specifics are not in place. We've been researching the capabilities for more than a year, the possibilities and efficiencies that we would gain and the benefits from our fleet being RNP-capable." The airline will start with its 737-700s, which come RNP-ready but would require "some switches to be flipped" before flying for SWA. There is no timetable on the retrofit, the spokesperson revealed, saying, "we don't have a clear plan of how we're going to move forward."

Nevertheless, Southwest is the largest airline to commit to RNP capability across its entire fleet. Alaska Airlines, which pioneered the development of RNP procedures, previously had made the same commitment. Blakey said 37 RNP approaches currently are available at 17 airports, with an additional 34 scheduled to be in place by year end and another 25 published next year.

Delta Air Lines Executive VP-Operations Joe Kolshak was on hand to detail the benefits performance-based navigation has brought to his carrier. DL received approval in March for its 737-800s to fly RNP approaches, joining Alaska Airlines, Horizon Air and Continental Airlines, and ATL has been RNAV-equipped since FY05. Kolshak said average delays have been reduced at ATL by 3 min., which he said was the equivalent of adding three aircraft to the fleet. DL ranked sixth among US legacy carriers in ontime performance two years ago and stands second so far this year. The fifth runway and new taxiway also have been key contributors.

Kolshak said Delta is conducting constant descent approach beta testing on early morning transcontinental arrivals at Atlanta and that initial indications are that it will save 400 lb. of fuel per flight, or 13 million gal. per year.
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Old 05-10-2007, 08:11 PM
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Glad to hear it. I would think that all the airlines would be moving in this direction already--at least with their newer equipment.
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Old 05-11-2007, 01:40 AM
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It always blew me away that SWA doesnt use / disables some of the prime safety / efficency equipment on thier aircraft. Autobrakes, VNAV, auto-throttles makes for a much more efficient and safer operation.
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Flatspin7 View Post
It always blew me away that SWA doesnt use / disables some of the prime safety / efficency equipment on thier aircraft. Autobrakes, VNAV, auto-throttles makes for a much more efficient and safer operation.
Flatspin, perhaps you could list a couple of those airlines that have a lower seat-mile cost (efficiency) or a better safety record (safer). Maybe by not using VNAV / auto-throttles, we stay more engaged with the aircraft.
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Old 05-11-2007, 04:39 AM
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AirTran would be one. Granted they had the crash as ValuJet, but if we are talking pilot performance/cost efficiency/safety record, they would fit the bill.
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Old 05-11-2007, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by SWAcapt View Post
Flatspin, perhaps you could list a couple of those airlines that have a lower seat-mile cost (efficiency) or a better safety record (safer). Maybe by not using VNAV / auto-throttles, we stay more engaged with the aircraft.
Amen to that.
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Old 05-11-2007, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by SWAcapt View Post
Flatspin, perhaps you could list a couple of those airlines that have a lower seat-mile cost (efficiency) or a better safety record (safer). Maybe by not using VNAV / auto-throttles, we stay more engaged with the aircraft.
Sorry, but after jumpseating the actual recently on SW and several other carriers that use the automation, I would completely disagree.

respectfully,
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Old 05-13-2007, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SWAcapt View Post
Flatspin, perhaps you could list a couple of those airlines that have a lower seat-mile cost (efficiency) or a better safety record (safer). Maybe by not using VNAV / auto-throttles, we stay more engaged with the aircraft.
So, SWAcapt - have you ever used VNAV/auto-throttles in commercial aircraft before, or are you just one of the many that completely buy into Crummy and others in flight ops mgt that put out this "more engaged with the aircraft" b.s., but have never used them?

Southwest is my third 121 carrier and we used VNAV and AT at both. SWA is a great company, but our procedures need a lot of work. There is far too much left over from the -200 old school philosophy in our operation, and not using vnav/autothrottle is a perfect example. "Not engaged" is pure b.s. There is plenty of empirical data out there that VNAV and autothrottles save gas far more than manually engaged pilots. Southwest is very cost efficient, but our lack of using VNAV and AT is not a contributor - just the opposite. I would also bet that we wouldn't stall the handful of aircraft at cruise altitude each year or overspeed as many flaps as we do if we used AT.

And, over the course of year, how much extra wear do we put on our engines at takeoff because we manually set the N1 power setting - common practice being to accept something higher than the calculated N1s as long as it's close, but more often than not, not "exact" like it would be using AT for takeoff. And then there is VNAV/LNAV non-precision approaches rather than the archaic "dive and drive" that we still do, and the list goes on.

I've mentioned autothrottles and a couple other suggestions to a few other "SWAcapt's" but quickly learned that F/O input is not really too welcome around here. The general feeling seems to be "nobody flies more 737's than us so why should we listen to outside input?” It's too bad, because there is much that could be learned from throughout the industry. Maybe the eventual changing of the guard in flight ops leadership would allow us to widen the lens and see where we could benefit from change.

So, despite the "we're the best" propaganda that gets put out, and many blindly buy into, it's just not true. Having flown here now for a bit over a year, I don't share your thoughts that SWA pilots are more engaged with the aircraft because we don't use autothrottle/vnav. There is the same group of pilots with the same mix of backgrounds here that you'll find throughout the industry. Some are better sticks and better guys/gals to fly with than others, but there is generally the same level of skill, professionalism, SA or "engagement" at SWA as anywhere else, despite our self-promotion otherwise.

Last edited by grumman; 05-13-2007 at 06:10 PM.
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Old 05-16-2007, 04:51 PM
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Anxiously awaiting SWAcapt response ...
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Old 05-16-2007, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SWAcapt View Post
Flatspin, perhaps you could list a couple of those airlines that have a lower seat-mile cost (efficiency) or a better safety record (safer). Maybe by not using VNAV / auto-throttles, we stay more engaged with the aircraft.
ya, right through the fence at 55th and central sorry, had to mention that one
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