rickair7777

Maybe at a regional.

Major unions typically take far better care of their furloughees, possible furlough pay, some benefits, option to buy full benefits, union-funded benefits, travel bennies, job placement at regionals or non-pilot mainline positions, etc. Best of all you most likely have a major airline job waiting in a year or three. When I was a regional pilot flying with J4J guys last time around I would have happily traded places with them.

I'd vastly prefer to be furloughed from a major than laid-off from anything else.

With all of that said, some active pilots will tend to vote and act in their own best interests regardless of who's on the streets. IMO that's technically OK (if distasteful) if in compliance with the contract. If you don't want OT Ho's plying their trade while folks are on the street, better put it in your contract.

But if you really want something to worry about while on furlough, it's not the short-term loss of pay... it's the possibility of a getting stapled to the bottom of merger seniority list while you're out... that will have ramifications for years or decades.

ShyGuy

Got a friend in the accounting/audit world and he said to their company a furlough means a temporary situation in which you can expect a call back once the economy improves, whereas a layoff is a permanent situation in which you don't have a job to come back to anymore when you're let go. I didn't know that, I thought it was basically the same thing of a temporary layoff and eventual call back.

rickair7777

Correct. Laid off means gone for good.

In the white-collar world a downturn and layoffs are used as an opportunity to eliminate deadwood and any other undesirables. Seniority is irrelevant, in fact senior folks (who have gotten a little too expensive and a little too comfortable over the years) are typically prime targets. So you're typically never coming back after a layoff, because there was a reason they picked you in the first place.

Furlough is either a short-term thing, with full intent to recall, or a union seniority-order thing, with recall rights.

C17B74

Prime example of what many higher end restaurants were doing in NYC due to COVID19. They didn’t take the gov loans and their employees were laid off. The employees expected to be furloughed with gov pay and a job to come back less worries. Owners however felt that why take a loan on 50 employees and have the responsibility to pay most or some of it back when they know they can hire incrementally. They mentioned it gives them the leverage since folks want to work, will be grateful for a job at the same pay or even slightly less and they will work harder and longer hours than before = Only 30 employees required vs 50 and same output if not better. People will actually earn their tips vs entitlement. Hmmmm, interesting thought right there.

busdriver12

Never give concessions. When the economy recovers, it will take years (if ever) to get those concessions back, and you'll have to fight for them. I don't consider a reduced schedule to be concessionary, however, if it is done right. Everybody works less and it does save people from being furloughed. Of course, those who are not at risk of furlough will have all sorts of reasons why they shouldn't work a reduced schedule.

At the time, furlough can seem like the worst possible situation, but definitely look for that silver lining. Occasionally it exists. Being furloughed can force you to do things you never would have considered. Me and my spouse both furloughed from our dream job with a major, two little kids, no money saved.....broke, scrambling for non-existent jobs, ended up at a much better place.

rickair7777

A reduced schedule is a safe "concession" because it is not in the company's best interest. They will want the productivity back as soon as possible, so it's not like you're going to get stuck with 65 hours/moth forever. Assuming you can even get them to agree to reduced schedules (ib lieu of furloughs) in the first place.

But yeah, no concessions.
1) You'll have to fight your way out of the hole.
2) That will be your baseline for further reductions in BK (snap-back provisions will evaporate in BK).

That kind of silver lining will be more apparent in hindsight...

busdriver12

Absolutely. We could have never seen better things coming, to us, furlough was the end of the world. It’s hard to look beyond it, and I wouldn’t wish a furlough upon anyone. Hoping this is very short lived.