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-   -   Feds to ban emotional support animals (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/131781-feds-ban-emotional-support-animals.html)

UnbeatenPath 12-02-2020 05:40 PM

Feds to ban emotional support animals
 
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/02/us-tightens-definition-of-service-animals-allowed-on-planes-.html

Yeah buddy

ROFF 12-02-2020 06:01 PM

Good. Too much abuse of that crap by snowflakes.

I presume my own emotional support animals will be exempt, a grey goose or wild turkey.

DeltaboundRedux 12-02-2020 07:18 PM

A 'boot time. I for one am tired of picking up doggie doo-doo in the middle of busy terminals after the owners using cellphones with HD cameras (therefore providing immunity from public shaming) because they can't fly without an animal...but also can't TAKE CARE OF IT in public areas.

(3x's in the last six months. At least.)

You know, there's a great deal of things going on in the world that would have garnered great laughter, derision, and scornful laughs that are now commonplace as recently as the 1990's (early). Thank god we live in a much, much more civilized time where "shame" is no longer a thing.

I, of course, pass no judgement. The Feds are staffed with amazing professionals who do not make mistakes. If they say this is the law, it's the law. They know best.

Amen.

TransWorld 12-02-2020 08:08 PM

Darn, means I cannot bring my emotional support porcupine? Assume I can still bring my seeing eye lion. FO always do a double take.

JamesNoBrakes 12-02-2020 09:51 PM

Read the rulemaking and law. Looks pretty solid. Good change.

Grumpyaviator 12-03-2020 05:58 AM

SWA doesnít allow pets in the cargo compartment. I wonder if there will be changes for us?

Aero1900 12-03-2020 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator (Post 3166070)
SWA doesnít allow pets in the cargo compartment. I wonder if there will be changes for us?

Same with Frontier. Im not against this rule change at all, but if we won't allow people to check their animals, we're basically forcing them to pretend it's an emotional support.

firefighterplt 12-03-2020 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROFF (Post 3165902)
Good. Too much abuse of that crap by snowflakes.

I presume my own emotional support animals will be exempt, a grey goose or wild turkey.

Just sneak it on the plane. In your stomach.

CincoDeMayo 12-03-2020 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero1900 (Post 3166082)
Same with Frontier. Im not against this rule change at all, but if we won't allow people to check their animals, we're basically forcing them to pretend it's an emotional support.

So?

Sorry to be so direct but, So? The airline doesnít want to accept the liability of transporting your dog in the cargo bin and pets donít belong in the airline cabin.

People donít pretend itís an emotional support animal because of the lack of ďcargoĒ option, they did it to not pay to bring the animal as a carry on pet and because putting an animal in the cargo compartment is borderline cruel.

There are airlines who will transport a pet in cargo, people can use them. I doubt Frontier wants to spend the money to have someone driving around the ramp collecting dogs in crates on the ramp, once DGS puts them down on the ramp, in the sun, under the loud APU.

JamesNoBrakes 12-03-2020 08:11 AM

It probably won't win, but I'd expect the miniature-horse service-animal community to put forth some lawsuits, probably finding an unscrupulous lawyer that doesn't understand 14 CFR. They are service-animals, but the DOTs reasoning seems pretty solid, they can't sit in a lap and be secured like a lap-child nor can they fit under the seats, therefore, they cannot be secured, which is a requirement for all cargo, which everything other than people in the cabin is.

rickair7777 12-03-2020 08:15 AM

https://i.imgur.com/0RP52cd.gif?noredirect

Left Handed 12-03-2020 08:15 AM

Guys, read the whole rule. It doesnít say anything about disallowing pets in the cabin. All it says is you canít call an animal an ďemotional support animalĒ (ie:free) any more unless it specifically has been trained as a service animal, and even that is limited to non-violent dogs. The airlineís pet carriage policies are not changed. You can still pay to have pets in the cabin.

rickair7777 12-03-2020 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Handed (Post 3166157)
Guys, read the whole rule. It doesnít say anything about disallowing pets in the cabin. All it says is you canít call an animal an ďemotional support animalĒ (ie:free) any more unless it specifically has been trained as a service animal, and even that is limited to non-violent dogs. The airlineís pet carriage policies are not changed. You can still pay to have pets in the cabin.

Yes, and this is GREAT.

It lets the airlines set reasonable rules for pets in the cabin, without the ESA loophole that you could drive a supertanker through.

Most airlines allow only small pets that fit (and stay) in a carry-on size pet carrier. I don't really care if they bring a tasmanian devil as long as it's in a container.

JamesNoBrakes 12-03-2020 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Left Handed (Post 3166157)
Guys, read the whole rule. It doesnít say anything about disallowing pets in the cabin. All it says is you canít call an animal an ďemotional support animalĒ (ie:free) any more unless it specifically has been trained as a service animal, and even that is limited to non-violent dogs. The airlineís pet carriage policies are not changed. You can still pay to have pets in the cabin.

The FAA doesn't tell certificate holders what they can't carry, except for the rules surrounding hazmat. If airline A wants to make money transporting snakes on a plane, more power to them.

The new DOT rule aligns Part 382 with 121 and 135 cargo carrying regulations. Previously, although airlines didn't have to carry cargo that could not be secured, they didn't equip check in and gate agents or flight attendants to deal with all the animals people tried to bring onto the plane. All to often they would bend over (the airlines) for fear of being sued or because they let an animal and person get on board that should never have gotten that far. Then you have to remove someone from a flight that never should have gotten there, because their animal can't be secured. Now with 382 aligning with FAA cargo carrying requirements, the airlines have the backing to enforce the cargo-carrying rules on the passengers.

highfarfast 12-05-2020 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3166126)
So?

Sorry to be so direct but, So? The airline doesnít want to accept the liability of transporting your dog in the cargo bin and pets donít belong in the airline cabin.

People donít pretend itís an emotional support animal because of the lack of ďcargoĒ option, they did it to not pay to bring the animal as a carry on pet and because putting an animal in the cargo compartment is borderline cruel.

There are airlines who will transport a pet in cargo, people can use them. I doubt Frontier wants to spend the money to have someone driving around the ramp collecting dogs in crates on the ramp, once DGS puts them down on the ramp, in the sun, under the loud APU.

I agree with this except the borderline cruel part. It IS absolutely cruel.

People, donít put your pets in cargo.

Additionally, taking pets to airport terminal is extremely rude. Itís one thing if itís really necessary because you need an SERVICE animal. Service animals are not pets. We arenít talking about that. But emotional support? Common. Not only are there people that donít like animals (and even fear them) but there are people with real allergen issues. Youíre requiring those people to tolerate your pet. And the pet itself? Where is it going to relieve itself? Even not considering that, you donít think itís stressed?

People, donít put your pets on airplanes.

Drive if you really must take your pets with you.

Yes. The rest of us are judging you.

PS: Weíve had pets all our lives. We love animals. Almost all of the ones weíve had have been rescue and they make up an important part of our family. They do not travel with us by air.


OK. Off soap box.

Dougdrvr 12-05-2020 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3166158)
Yes, and this is GREAT.

It lets the airlines set reasonable rules for pets in the cabin, without the ESA loophole that you could drive a supertanker through.

Most airlines allow only small pets that fit (and stay) in a carry-on size pet carrier. I don't really care if they bring a tasmanian devil as long as it's in a container.

I had a Tasmanian devil and, good lord, I went through a lot of pet carriers.

TransWorld 12-05-2020 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougdrvr (Post 3167313)
I had a Tasmanian devil and, good lord, I went through a lot of pet carriers.

I went through a lot of band aids when people have asked if they could pet my emotional support porcupine.

CA1900 12-05-2020 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes (Post 3166154)
It probably won't win, but I'd expect the miniature-horse service-animal community to put forth some lawsuits...

No doubt. The feds decided we needed to rubber-band our logbooks to the plane so they wouldn't somehow become a projectile, but an unsecured horse in the cabin is (well, was) totally fine.

arizatonya 12-06-2020 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefighterplt (Post 3166114)
Just sneak it on the plane. In your stomach.

Here comes the Chinese dude

rickair7777 12-06-2020 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CA1900 (Post 3167368)
No doubt. The feds decided we needed to rubber-band our logbooks to the plane so they wouldn't somehow become a projectile, but an unsecured horse in the cabin is (well, was) totally fine.

In fairness, the part of the fed that allowed horses was not the FAA. ADA should never have been allowed to intrude on the FAA's turf. If OSHA jurisdiction ends at the jetway, why do random, ill-conceived ADA edicts apply?

FXLAX 12-06-2020 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3167425)
In fairness, the part of the fed that allowed horses was not the FAA. ADA should never have been allowed to intrude on the FAA's turf. If OSHA jurisdiction ends at the jetway, why do random, ill-conceived ADA edicts apply?


Because government...duh.

trip 12-07-2020 07:18 AM

Counted eight dogs, (big ones, not lap yappers) on leashes the other day in SLC A term. One was a legit service member support dog, the rest just pets. One had ****ed on the floor and the good hubby was trying to clean it up.
Off Topic- New SLC terminal, not really impressed thus far.

Grumble 12-07-2020 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trip (Post 3167792)
Counted eight dogs, (big ones, not lap yappers) on leashes the other day in SLC A term. One was a legit service member support dog, the rest just pets. One had ****ed on the floor and the good hubby was trying to clean it up.
Off Topic- New SLC terminal, not really impressed thus far.

This right here is why this crap needs to end. If you can't be without your pet, you're probably not stable enough to be in public without a helmet in the first place, and you're a vile human being for taking advantage of people that need genuine service animals.

Allegheny 12-07-2020 11:43 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I am now retired but I used to travel with my ESA, Emotional Support Animal, "Mongo." He had a way about him, just the way he looked settled people down. I did have to haul a lot of bananas, but no one ever gave me much trouble with him around. He did all my personal negotiation with stupid people.

firefighterplt 12-07-2020 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Allegheny (Post 3167877)
I don't know what all the fuss is about. I am now retired but I used to travel with my ESA, Emotional Support Animal, "Mongo." He had a way about him, just the way he looked settled people down. I did have to haul a lot of bananas, but no one ever gave me much trouble with him around. He did all my personal negotiation with stupid people.

RIP Harambe #DOFH

JamesNoBrakes 12-07-2020 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3167425)
In fairness, the part of the fed that allowed horses was not the FAA. ADA should never have been allowed to intrude on the FAA's turf. If OSHA jurisdiction ends at the jetway, why do random, ill-conceived ADA edicts apply?

Things in the cabin that could not be secured were never approved. Part 382 (the old one) made allowance for this (that carriage could be refused in the sake of safety) and in those cases, the animal could be required to go in the cargo hold in a cargo carrier. Anything in the cabin that's not a person is cargo and must be secured by an approved means. The problem is the airlines refused to enforce this and I don't know of any cases where this was pursued, as no "covert" surveillance was ever undertaken. It was a bad system, with stuff getting past the gate agents and onto the aircraft that obviously had no place there, then they'd have to "remove" someone with a disability, which I guess would go over very bad, but if regulations were on their side they would have been fine...except for court costs and that's probably what they were really trying to avoid.

The rules were a mess though and much clearer now.

Zard 12-08-2020 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 3167285)
I agree with this except the borderline cruel part. It IS absolutely cruel.

People, donít put your pets in cargo.

Additionally, taking pets to airport terminal is extremely rude. Itís one thing if itís really necessary because you need an SERVICE animal. Service animals are not pets. We arenít talking about that. But emotional support? Common. Not only are there people that donít like animals (and even fear them) but there are people with real allergen issues. Youíre requiring those people to tolerate your pet. And the pet itself? Where is it going to relieve itself? Even not considering that, you donít think itís stressed?

People, donít put your pets on airplanes.

Drive if you really must take your pets with you.

Yes. The rest of us are judging you.

PS: Weíve had pets all our lives. We love animals. Almost all of the ones weíve had have been rescue and they make up an important part of our family. They do not travel with us by air.


OK. Off soap box.


I'm still looking for that bridge or tunnel to Hawaii.

highfarfast 12-08-2020 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zard (Post 3168215)
I'm still looking for that bridge or tunnel to Hawaii.

Why is it that you need to take your pet on vacation to Hawaii?

Zard 12-08-2020 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 3168412)
Why is it that you need to take your pet on vacation to Hawaii?

I don't. However, I did have to move my pet to and from there when Uncle Sugar told me to report to my new gig.

Boxhound 12-09-2020 05:01 AM

.......
 
Whelp. What am I supposed to do now with my therapy rattlesnake? Every time I do something good for him or try to take care of him--he tries to bite me!


Kinda like some airline managements that I've worked for in the past.

Ed Force One 12-09-2020 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxhound (Post 3168488)
Whelp. What am I supposed to do now with my therapy rattlesnake? Every time I do something good for him or try to take care of him--he tries to bite me!

"Enough is enough! I have had it with the monkey fighting snakes on this Monday to Friday plane!"

Boxhound 12-09-2020 03:36 PM

.....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Force One (Post 3168702)
"Enough is enough! I have had it with the monkey fighting snakes on this Monday to Friday plane!"


Bones McCoy voice----"DAMMIT JIM!!"

highfarfast 12-09-2020 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zard (Post 3168417)
I don't. However, I did have to move my pet to and from there when Uncle Sugar told me to report to my new gig.

How many of these pets we see at the airport do you think are with their owners because they are moving?

Zard 12-10-2020 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 3168886)
How many of these pets we see at the airport do you think are with their owners because they are moving?

not very many.

My bone to pick was with the idea that putting your pet in cargo was cruel. It might be disconcerting, but it was probably less cruel than dumping my pets with someone else for a couple years or forever.

My dogs made the trip fine on both ends .

highfarfast 12-10-2020 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zard (Post 3168976)
not very many.

My bone to pick was with the idea that putting your pet in cargo was cruel. It might be disconcerting, but it was probably less cruel than dumping my pets with someone else for a couple years or forever.

My dogs made the trip fine on both ends .

I can understand why someone would not want to give up their pets but it most certainly is cruel. Rehoming them is not cruel, assuming the new home is a good one.

Zard 12-11-2020 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 3168986)
I can understand why someone would not want to give up their pets but it most certainly is cruel. Rehoming them is not cruel, assuming the new home is a good one.

agree to disagree. Cheers.

rickair7777 12-11-2020 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highfarfast (Post 3168986)
I can understand why someone would not want to give up their pets but it most certainly is cruel. Rehoming them is not cruel, assuming the new home is a good one.

A ride in the cargo pit is no fun for a pet, that's for sure. But it's probably less stressful than the re-homing process, unless the new owner is somebody they already know well (ie pack member).

Forgotmywallet 12-14-2020 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3169402)
A ride in the cargo pit is no fun for a pet, that's for sure. But it's probably less stressful than the re-homing process, unless the new owner is somebody they already know well (ie pack member).

Depends on the breed. Greyhounds freak out and have no body fat to deal with temps outside a certain range. I’ve moved a lot of Greyhounds as a Pilots and Paws Pilot. I also have 4. I’d be okay with some breeds in cargo but not a Grey. Rehoming an ex racer is not typically stressful as GHs are used to being moved from place to place. We just moved 2 of them in a Cessna 310 from TX to ABQ.

Ed Force One 12-15-2020 10:36 AM

Based on just a few things I've seen in my career I would *NEVER* ship a pet on an airline.
That being said, the longest move I've ever made with pets was just recently moving our cats 25 miles by car, so Idk what I'd do if we had to move them cross country.

ReadOnly7 12-15-2020 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Force One (Post 3171035)
Based on just a few things I've seen in my career I would *NEVER* ship a pet on an airline.
That being said, the longest move I've ever made with pets was just recently moving our cats 25 miles by car, so Idk what I'd do if we had to move them cross country.

UPS Ground with a bag of food in the box.

*in all seriousness.....if you put your animals on the same level as people, then you drive....even if itís cross country. Itís a minor inconvenience.


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