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Old 07-10-2021, 03:19 PM
  #51  
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Why wonít the faa let us have ambien or something similar? Those were approved in the Air Force after a ground trial.
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Old 07-10-2021, 07:08 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by bababouey View Post
Why wonít the faa let us have ambien or something similar? Those were approved in the Air Force after a ground trial.
Itís the FAA, they still think facial hair will be a problem
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Old 07-11-2021, 05:35 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by bababouey View Post
Why wonít the faa let us have ambien or something similar? Those were approved in the Air Force after a ground trial.
The FAA gives you a 24hr window for that one. It's always best to avoid any sleep aid. But, if you get a script, sonata only needs a 12hrs before resuming pilot duties.
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Old 07-12-2021, 03:19 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Cyio View Post
Itís the FAA, they still think facial hair will be a problem
I don't think the FAA has an issue with that... various corporate + HAL pilots can have facial hair.
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Old 07-12-2021, 09:19 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Forgotmywallet View Post
Great book that has several paragraphs on airline pilots. Discusses melatonin as well.
One of the best books on sleep Iíve read. Author is a professor of neuroscience at Berkeley. I did weekly redeyes for B6 for four straight years.
https://www.amazon.com/Why-We-Sleep-.../dp/1501144324
Just finished reading this book based on recommendations here on APC. Really top notch info that every pilot should read.

If the FAA really did ďfollow the science ď, Part 117 duty time rules would have went a whole lot further. Canít help coming away from reading that book and thinking ďthis job is inherently very, very unhealthy ď

Youíll never avoid the worst long term effects, but a book like this gives some strategies to mitigate them somewhat.
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Old 07-19-2021, 10:33 PM
  #56  
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You could always watch Netflix. I mean those outside of Radar environment at least. Keeps me up.
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Old 07-20-2021, 12:03 PM
  #57  
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I saw the documentary with Denzel Washington in it and it showed him using some product I never heard of before but it definitely managed to wake him up. It might be worth trying.
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Old 07-23-2021, 07:19 AM
  #58  
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Here are some tips that donít seem to have been mentioned yet:

1. Use a sleep tracker that records napping. Apple Watch plus the Auto Sleep App are the only combo that Iíve found that does naps. Actively manage your sleep stats like youíd manage your portfolio.
2. Research says that you can only shift your circadian rhythm ~1.5hrs/day. You canít shift your body to a redeye schedule the day prior, you have to start days prior. When I worked nights, I shifted my sleep schedule to something resembling a swing shift so that I could keep a foot in the day for when I was off and a foot in the nights for when I was working. I wasnít perfectly rested for either but was functional for both without having to shift back and forth. If youíre only doing 1-2 redeyes at a time itís probably better to keep yourself on a normal sleep schedule and just power through the night flights.
3. The FAA has a list of sleep aids on their website and the amount of time required after consuming them before you can fly. Sonata has a 6hr expiration and works way better than melatonin but not as well as Ambien. Take Sonata to fall asleep initially and then take melatonin when you wake up to use the restroom so that you can go back to sleep.
4. Use an eye mask and ear plugs to stay asleep longer during the day. This gets me anywhere from an extra 30 minutes to an extra hour or two per day.
5. Donít eat or exercise within a few hours of going to bed otherwise you wonít go to bed.
6. As someone else recommended, read the book, ďWhy We SleepĒ. Being rested on a redeye schedule is a job unto itself. If you do 100% of everything right per the book youíll still at best only be ~80% rested. Being rested is a battle of inches, actually 30 minute increments. Each technique in the book will only net you an extra 15-30 minutes of sleep per day but those small chunks add up to a significant amount of extra sleep.
7. Itís easy to mistake fatigue for low blood sugar. Try eating before your try caffeine to avoid sleep problems.
8. 101 level is being rested for work. 201 level is being rested for when you get off of work so that you can work to live rather than live to work.

Good luck!
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Old 07-25-2021, 09:05 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by phrogfella View Post
2. Research says that you can only shift your circadian rhythm ~1.5hrs/day. You canít shift your body to a redeye schedule the day prior, you have to start days prior. When I worked nights, I shifted my sleep schedule to something resembling a swing shift so that I could keep a foot in the day for when I was off and a foot in the nights for when I was working. I wasnít perfectly rested for either but was functional for both without having to shift back and forth. If youíre only doing 1-2 redeyes at a time itís probably better to keep yourself on a normal sleep schedule and just power through the night flights.
I avoid multiple redeyes like the plague, I'd be at UPS or FDX if I wanted to do that. Be healthy and well-rested the day before and you can power through one or even two easily. After that, it goes downhill.

With a family I can't live my life on anything but day shift. If I was single, I'd probably just do the vampire thing (at FDX/UPS), and live in manhattan where there's stuff do 24/7.


Originally Posted by phrogfella View Post
4. Use an eye mask and ear plugs to stay asleep longer during the day. This gets me anywhere from an extra 30 minutes to an extra hour or two per day.
Mask, definitely. Ear plugs? Better come up with some foolproof wake-up technique. I know this because I still remember as a JO on a warship my XO waking me up with the entire ship except me at battle stations... not a drill either. That was the end of the earplugs.

Originally Posted by phrogfella View Post
5. Donít eat or exercise within a few hours of going to bed otherwise you wonít go to bed.
Yes, definitely no serious exercise within about three hours. Sometimes you have to eat but keep it light and healthy-ish. Filet Mignon or big pasta dish won't help. Actually any significant meat consumption will tend to make your sleep restless and prone to dreams... something to do with metabolizing protein.


Originally Posted by phrogfella View Post
101 level is being rested for work. 201 level is being rested for when you get off of work so that you can work to live rather than live to work.
That's why I try to avoid stoopid crazy schedules... I *try* to bid the days off my wife wants but I'm not doing a month of HI redeyes to get every single one of them.
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Old 07-26-2021, 12:12 AM
  #60  
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I canít do melatonin as I get a horrible sleep and it leaves me checked out.
Lights on, nobody home kinda thing.
Multiple 3-5 hrs sleep sessions or naps.
Sometimes just lay in a dark room and rest.
I can get into this semi vegetative state halfway sleep.
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