Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3260732)
1. Jet time is good
2. Jet PIC is good 3. Type ratings are good 4. Recent training events are good Unless you'd take an unacceptable QOL hit due to reserve/seniority, yeah transitioning is going to be a net positive on multiple accounts. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3258641)
There is a real and significant learning curve from props to jets Turbofans are typically simpler than turboprops (less moving parts). Less levers to operate. You don't have condition levers and beta, etc. Everything else is usually the same except that jets may have more systems. Right? |
My take:
probably some of this has to do with the specific turboprops and jets being flown by us airlines recently. if you had 80,000 lb swept wing turboprops with fms/fl410 ceiling 400kt cruise being used in 121 ops … it would probably be a minor transition but you don’t. Saabs and Dash 8’s are very different from A320’s. |
Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
(Post 3260752)
This makes no sense to me. Honest question - why do you think this is the case?
Turbofans are typically simpler than turboprops (less moving parts). Less levers to operate. You don't have condition levers and beta, etc. Everything else is usually the same except that jets may have more systems. Right? Jet's are faster. Sometimes people struggle with that. If you're also moving from steam to glass, that's a problem too. I've seen it happen. A glass turboprop will make for an easier transition. Going from a glass jet to a steam turboprop could be very challenging too, but that's not an issue the majors have to worry about. Doesn't matter what I think though, it's major HR departments that came to this conclusion. |
Originally Posted by rickair7777
(Post 3260870)
Jet's are faster. Sometimes people struggle with that. If you're also moving from steam to glass, that's a problem too. I've seen it happen.
A glass turboprop will make for an easier transition. Going from a glass jet to a steam turboprop could be very challenging too, but that's not an issue the majors have to worry about. Doesn't matter what I think though, it's major HR departments that came to this conclusion. |
I went from steam prop to glass jet and the only issue I remember is remembering to slow to 250 and the fact that most jets cant go down and slow down at the same time. That’s about it
|
Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
(Post 3260918)
So the issue is really glass, and speed, not the fundamentals of a turboprop vs a turbofan?
Energy management on jets is a bit harder because it's harder to slow them down. I came from turbo props and they are more forgiving for poor decent planning. You can slow them down much quicker. The glass cockpit thing is a different issue. I didn't find going to a modern, glass cockpit to be difficult at all but everyone is different. As for system complexity, it just doesn't matter. You have a throttle in both. You push it forward to go fast. The number of moving parts doesn't matter much. I came from a turbo prop only airline and saw all of our pilots get hired to fly big jets. I do not believe turbo prop pilots (multi engine turbo prop) struggle to get big jet jobs or struggle with training |
The issue isn’t “do most turboprop pilots struggle to upgrade”
The issue is “do the people who struggle more often come from turboprops” People who struggle in training are a huge time suck. The training supervisor on call who had to decide how many extra sim sessions someone needs after they fail something on a Saturday at 10pm. The 8 people on the training review committee that spend an hour talking about it after he still fails after two extra sessions. The guy who ends up staying at a residence inn in XYZ because this guy’s extension took his slot at ABC It’s a big production. So if 20/1000 people have problems in training you look at the 20 not the 980. 10/300 people without jet have issues compared to 10/700 with jet time… there’s your answer |
Originally Posted by ZeroTT
(Post 3261053)
The issue isn’t “do most turboprop pilots struggle to upgrade”
The issue is “do the people who struggle more often come from turboprops” People who struggle in training are a huge time suck. The training supervisor on call who had to decide how many extra sim sessions someone needs after they fail something on a Saturday at 10pm. The 8 people on the training review committee that spend an hour talking about it after he still fails after two extra sessions. The guy who ends up staying at a residence inn in XYZ because this guy’s extension took his slot at ABC It’s a big production. So if 20/1000 people have problems in training you look at the 20 not the 980. 10/300 people without jet have issues compared to 10/700 with jet time… there’s your answer There's always people who struggle in training. And training depts have to deal with that. But i don't believe there is any evidence to support the idea that turbo prop pilots will struggle more. In fact, I suspect it's the other way around. Like I said, I came from a turboprop airline and I watched every one of our pilots successfully move up to "big jet" jobs |
Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
(Post 3260918)
So the issue is really glass, and speed, not the fundamentals of a turboprop vs a turbofan?
The jet propulsion is very obviously easier to manage than the prop propulsion, and I've seen RJ pilots wash out trying to upgrade on turboprops. But that's just not a problem that majors care about though. SWA definitely was happy to hire turboprop pilots recently, although every single one that I knew was a LCA. |
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