First World Problem Delta/United/SWA CJOs
 

I have a pretty big first world problem. I have CJOs from United, Delta and SWA. I have a Dec class with United and was told to expect mid/late Dec with Delta. SWA CJO just came in, and was told I might be able to get a December class, but no guarantees. It might be Jan/Feb 2022. I'm retired military, early 50's and live in SOCAL and looking to drive to work at LAX. I care more about QOL than $$ at this point. I have friends and peers at each of the airlines, but thought I would throw it out to the collective mind of APC to hear your thoughts. Thanks, and hiring has REALLY ramped back up. If you have the quals, they really do want to hire you.

Can’t speak to the others, but NB LAX at UAL is a junior domicile, so your seniority would move quickly there. Seniority is everything arguably only second to living in base. You’d have both.

LAX is junior at SWA too. You’ll upgrade way faster at UAL though.

UAL. DAL if you like double breasted coats and having an additional duty of policing 121.5, asking for wind checks, and reporting light chop. SWA if you like self-flagellation and sitting in a 737 torture chamber for hours on end with a 16.9 year upgrade. But in all seriousness, it’d be between UAL and UAL for me if I had the unfortunate circumstance of living in southern commiefornia.

Ual. They’re on a hiring spree and you will have quick qol as a NB FO. Plus they’re the first class date

I am biased to UAL as I am there , but the west coast in general is very junior , LAX or SFO have tons of flying (right now SFO is hurt because of lack of Asia but that will come Back at some point. You can stick to NB or flying the 787/777 very soon if that does it for ya .

the tough part is making a choice based off data you know today , that can change greatly in a few years , either way great choices to have congrats !

DAL is ramping up hiring big time, they're supposedly shooting for 70/week in indoc starting next year (i'll believe it when I see it). I assume UAL is doing the same, so that's probably a crapshoot either way. Both are great companies, but UAL has a huge edge on WB flying (if you're looking for that) as you'll get there much earlier with the sheer number of WBs and the fact they use 3 FOs on their long haul stuff. I'd ask your bros about reserve life at their respective carriers. As an in base guy (DAL), I'm a reserve bidder by choice and it's pretty dang good, especially when I was on the WB. For me, it's a coin flip between UAL and DAL....maybe the first indoc date solves that. SWA is last for me simply because of the lack of WB flying.

Congrats and best of luck! You really can't go wrong.

WidgetSeniority.com

Click on the new and prospective hires link. This will give you an idea on where you’d sit seniority wise at Delta. Good luck on your decision!

Life on reserve isn’t an issue unless you want to bid WB immediately. You’ll have a line very quickly

Which ever one allows you to a) drive to work and 2) first indoc date.

Problem solved...now go drink beer!

Don’t come to SWA. Our retirements and therefore your seniority progression are FAR slower than UAL & DAL. Go to one of those two.

SWA pilots are based and red pilled. Max testosterone per capita with warrior spirits and servant's hearts controlling. Pure blood no vax peps and pedes draining the swamp. Don't tread on me. I'd serve with them.

Are you having a stroke?! Do you need me to call someone?

DAL. Largest market share in LAX. Prob stay that way. Means more options.

Well whatever you choose best be happy with it. When you turn the other 2 down you might end up with a couple of bridges fewer that you are able to cross in the future if it’s needed. But who really knows what tomorrow’s hiring might look like? Congrats on the options

Fadec as usual delivers the most entertaining troll content on APC

Take UAL and see if you can push out the class dates for DAL and SWA. That way if things don’t go well at UAL for whatever reason you have options.

Say yes to all of them. Don’t say no until you absolutely have to.

^This^

Also LAX is very junior for UAL. The current vacancy bid that's open has WB FO and NB CA both below 3yrs. If you are more interested in QOL 3yrs puts you at about the top 25% in seniority for the 756/320/737 as a FO.

Of course the wheels could always come off tomorrow morning as well.

Just a few more DAL points for you. LAX is junior for DAL. A320 category is growing quickly with the new 321's and NEOs starting nest year. If you don't mind the 737, it's very junior. You be able to hold 767/757 almost immediately. You'll most likely be NY based initially but will probably have the opportunity to get LAX very quickly. We still have positive space commuting if you do get NY. Construction in LAX right now is a PITA but should be winding down next year with a new terminal and increased flying. Congrats and good luck!

I would go to Delta, move to Florida, and commute to ATL. If you want to stay in Cali, take the UAL class date.

Not SWA. This place is a train crashing into a dumpster fire on a sinking ship right now.

maybe it'll get better, but even if it does, you'll be a narrow body captain here flying a regional FO schedule way after you could hold the left seat somewhere else.

think you left out that the ship was sinking in a half empty glass.

Absolutely. These types of threads always crack me up. “Should I go to SWA or a legacy?”

Obviously, those that ask these questions haven’t spent too much time in a Guppy cockpit because otherwise they wouldn’t be asking.

Every year that passes that cockpit seems to get more cramped and uncomfortable. Damn I wish we went with the A220s and not more Maxes.

I think this is a pretty big part that’s been overlooked. Obviously you can drive to all 3 so QoL will be pretty good. You have to ask yourself what type of flying do you really like? If international that cuts out SWA, then you have to look at the relative movement between DL and LAX. If you hate red eyes, international may not be great and you might have more flexibility at SWA. Maybe you want to upgrade quick and look at the relative times. Maybe you want to be a career FO doing 6-8 hour day turns and being home every single night. I would reach out to friends with the specific flying (realistically) you want to do the last 10-15 years of your career and see what lines/planes and movements are like. I think if you had 20-30 years you might want to more heavily favored DAL and UAL because they may provide more flexibility in types of flying. If I were you I would find out what I would be happiest doing in terms of type of flying and then weigh the options.

It’s too bad you can’t jumpseat on these carriers, because having a couple of flights in the cockpit, talking to pilots and experiencing the flight with the crew would be helpful.

I recently jumpseated on SW, and really enjoyed the crew, good people all of them, pleasant and friendly. However, that cockpit was so cramped, I don’t know how we all fit in there. Avionics looked old, think we were teetering around at FL 390, made me feel like flying freight on a wide body was luxurious. The crew was flying several legs that day, don’t know if this is a job that older people would enjoy so much unless they were senior.

I’ve avoided deadheading on UAL for decades, many people at my company do the same thing, unless there’s no other good option, and they live in a UAL base. Pilots are a good lot, though.

If I had to fly pax, there’s no doubt I’d choose Delta. After flying two million miles on them, the airline seems like a classy place and their product is a step above the others, theoretically that should translate into longevity.

Don’t weigh SWA on a lack of red eye flying—it’s very possible that we may get them eventually.

I wouldn’t go to SWA unless:

1) You wanna spend several legs per day locked in a loud, cramped cockpit for the rest of your flying career.

2) You prefer long days and short overnights, often in places like Lubbock, Fresno, or Bradley, CT and frequently staying in near-budget hotels located next to busy roads or highways with limited meal options.

3) You’d like to not have the option of upgrading in the next 10–15 years.

*Something to consider: if you’re fired up about opposing the vax mandate and such, SWA is probably where you want to go. UAL’s and SWA’s approach to it, so far, have been pretty much 180 degrees out from each other. UAL has taken a hard line on it. SWA seems like it’s much more friendly to the vax-hostile crowd. Depending on who you are, that’s either a good or a bad thing.

Hahaha, picking an airline because you are scared of a shot is ridiculous. You have to have a vaccine to start at southwest now. So no you can’t even go to class or get the “this is Your class date” without proof of vaccination. Horrible advice that means nothing. Ok if you want advice pick an airline in a city you will live in and like. So funny

New hires are now given a choice of shot or accommodation. Prob a discrimination lawsuit if they don’t or they don’t want to lose good hires to other airlines.

If I had those options and never planned to move from the LA area I would absolutely choose UAL. Junior, faster upgrade, other aircraft options, etc. I would mark SWA last. If you do choose SWA do not put culture or no furlough in a pro column. The company culture is fake and they will furlough when they have to, just like any other carrier.


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I’ve got 4 weeks vacation a year at swa and drop trips on both sides. I can revamp my schedule continuously throughout the month. That’s good. I’ve been an FO for 10 years and fly a commuter type schedule. That’s bad. With UAL and DAL having huge retirements I think you need to seriously lean that way. Of course I’ve always believed you take the first class offered and let the chips fall as they may. Good luck

With California being the junior bases (along with Newark) and the fact that you can have your choice of aircraft if offered in INDOC, I’d go with United. Bid that just closed shows captains less than 2 years on the west coast and system wide. Plus, there are captain vacancies remaining unfilled as well as 320, 737, 756, 777 and 787 FO vacancies which will be offered to new hires. With our growth and retirements, United is a no-brainer, especially with the earliest class date in hand.

Here's some math for you. In 10 years, UAL will retire roughly 6,000 pilots just due to Age 65, or roughly 45% of their pilot group. In the same timeframe, SWA will retire just under 3400 pilots due to Age 65, which is currently roughly 37% of the pilot group.

At UAL, you'll be able to upgrade at the 90-some percent system seniority because you'll have other options. You'll still be way, way junior in the company, but you'll have the opportunity to upgrade simply due to fleet diversity. At UAL, it appears that the retirements alone will make your upward movement dizzyingly fast, not to mention the expansion.

At SWA, you'll upgrade to 737 captain upon reaching 60% system seniority. You'll have to have roughly 4-5,000 people below you. By the time you reach the junior most captain position at SWA, by comparison you should be able to hold 756 captain at UAL, having been a NB captain there for years and years. Your upgrade will have to come from mostly growth and though SWA will grow, having a single fleet type and being a mature airline are seriously the two biggest impediments to your upgrade.

No telling what the future holds, but given the simple math, if I had multiple CJO's and were starting from the bottom, I'd go to UAL and not look back.