UA vs AA (flow) vs UPS
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2018
Posts: 1,082
I was going to post a similar topic soon. I’m doing ACMI right now and I really like it, at least most of the time I do. But I have an AA interview coming up and my UPS app may be getting looked at. Obviously I have to get a CJO from both. I live in DFW and AA has always been my dream airline. The thought of driving to work for a day trip to LAX or MIA is appealing. But the type of international flying UPS does is the type of flying I like, not to mention DH deviation to make commuting better. I understand UPS has lots of different trips that can appeal to everyone though. So it could be a tough decision coming up.
#12
Social Media retired.
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 768
Re: UPS
CLT to SDF commute super easy.
It is a big $$ job. You can retire early.
Vacation benefits also worth considering as is conflict bidding.
We are a smaller pilot group, currently only around 3,100 total, with our own union.
“…how worn out those guys look...” That’s a big generalization - I’d do a lot more research on UPS if I were you. Schedule wise you can start here on post #193 and continue through the last 3 pages: UPS Typical Schedule
The bottom line with the flying at brown is with a little seniority you can find your niche and avoid the stuff that makes you look worn out but it’s not a bankers hours type of place either (for the most part). How have you handled the late nights / early mornings so far in your career? If it’s been problematic then you might want to reconsider but I think most people can survive the schedules for the most part.
Brown is also a different place to work in terms of culture and the employee experience. If you’re the type to keep your nose clean and forget about the job on your days off then you’ll do fine. If you need recognition and want to be all into the company then I’d run from brown as fast as you can. It’s not toxic but you need to have thick skin to a certain extent. You’ll never get a “good job” from them, for example.
Also to note: Express logistics (FedEx / UPS) are different jobs than flying for the legacies/majors. The flying is different, the flight deck culture, the operating environment (pax vs boxes), we still have hard lines vs pbs, the airline division is part of a much bigger organization vs being the sole product for the pax carriers. …and everything seems easier on our side of the house. For instance, no terminals to deal with, you get driven to and picked up planeside so you’re in and out much faster, you fly in cruise clothes, get up and move about when you want vs coordinating with FAs, you got your own galley, bunks vs curtained first class seats…stuff like that. The flip side is that you’re often flying tired and if you don’t want it to take years off your life you’ll have to make some sacrifices: prioritize a healthy lifestyle in general and efficient sleep on layovers - this means laying low and slam clicking more than you may otherwise prefer. You may also need to shift your clock a little on days off to make the work week more palatable. Small price to pay. Just takes discipline. Anyway, it’s a tough decision and UPS isn’t a well known destination. We’ve got a good crew over on the UPS threads and have put out a ton of quality info to help potential hires make a good decision. Head over there and work the search function or ask questions, we are happy to help.
Good luck.
CLT to SDF commute super easy.
It is a big $$ job. You can retire early.
Vacation benefits also worth considering as is conflict bidding.
We are a smaller pilot group, currently only around 3,100 total, with our own union.
“…how worn out those guys look...” That’s a big generalization - I’d do a lot more research on UPS if I were you. Schedule wise you can start here on post #193 and continue through the last 3 pages: UPS Typical Schedule
The bottom line with the flying at brown is with a little seniority you can find your niche and avoid the stuff that makes you look worn out but it’s not a bankers hours type of place either (for the most part). How have you handled the late nights / early mornings so far in your career? If it’s been problematic then you might want to reconsider but I think most people can survive the schedules for the most part.
Brown is also a different place to work in terms of culture and the employee experience. If you’re the type to keep your nose clean and forget about the job on your days off then you’ll do fine. If you need recognition and want to be all into the company then I’d run from brown as fast as you can. It’s not toxic but you need to have thick skin to a certain extent. You’ll never get a “good job” from them, for example.
Also to note: Express logistics (FedEx / UPS) are different jobs than flying for the legacies/majors. The flying is different, the flight deck culture, the operating environment (pax vs boxes), we still have hard lines vs pbs, the airline division is part of a much bigger organization vs being the sole product for the pax carriers. …and everything seems easier on our side of the house. For instance, no terminals to deal with, you get driven to and picked up planeside so you’re in and out much faster, you fly in cruise clothes, get up and move about when you want vs coordinating with FAs, you got your own galley, bunks vs curtained first class seats…stuff like that. The flip side is that you’re often flying tired and if you don’t want it to take years off your life you’ll have to make some sacrifices: prioritize a healthy lifestyle in general and efficient sleep on layovers - this means laying low and slam clicking more than you may otherwise prefer. You may also need to shift your clock a little on days off to make the work week more palatable. Small price to pay. Just takes discipline. Anyway, it’s a tough decision and UPS isn’t a well known destination. We’ve got a good crew over on the UPS threads and have put out a ton of quality info to help potential hires make a good decision. Head over there and work the search function or ask questions, we are happy to help.
Good luck.
#14
My thoughts exactly.
I’d get out of the pax business in a hurry and you’ve just been handed the golden ticket.
You’ve seen what can happen to it.
Go freight and never look back.
You can buy a condo in each base for Crissakes.
I’d get out of the pax business in a hurry and you’ve just been handed the golden ticket.
You’ve seen what can happen to it.
Go freight and never look back.
You can buy a condo in each base for Crissakes.
#15
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,636
Going UPS is a different lifestyle than staying pax. As a UPS pilot and IPA member, I think it’s a pretty good option relative to other flying gigs. However, at your age the time value of money works against you. This is where the value of a defined benefit really comes into focus. You can absolutely max out the B plan and the 401k every year here once you hit year two. BUT, the pension for you would provide (18 years X $4,400= $79,200) a solid floor to your income for the rest of your life. This effectively allows your retirement investments more time to grow which equals more money to support you.
Final comment, people always talk about how many wide bodies United has. At UPS, everyone makes widebody pay. We don’t have a narrow body pay scale. Good luck no matter what you choose!
#16
Coming from a regional, you’re likely to be in a “light twin” class at UPS. At your age, you might squeak out a SDFZ assignment but SDF 757 or A300 is more likely. That means, at least for the first year or so, night sort flying. Right now, seniority for newbies is moving faster on the Boeing than the Bus for two reasons - 767 growth airframes and Bus undergoing avionics conversion for the next 15-18 or so months.
18 month newhire seat lock, but you can change domiciles on the same fleet. SDF 757 to SDFZ 757 will allow you the opportunity for international flying, but you’ll be more junior longer.
This job ain’t for everybody, but it is very very very good with career earnings potential value proposition favorable toward someone with only 19 years until mandatory retirement.
You have a good problem…
18 month newhire seat lock, but you can change domiciles on the same fleet. SDF 757 to SDFZ 757 will allow you the opportunity for international flying, but you’ll be more junior longer.
This job ain’t for everybody, but it is very very very good with career earnings potential value proposition favorable toward someone with only 19 years until mandatory retirement.
You have a good problem…
#18
Banned
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 2,012
Even if the roles were reversed … AA now vs UPS flow in 10 months the answer would be the same
TAKE A MAJOR CLASS and keep applying elsewhere if you so choose.
Voluntarily staying another year at a regional is, barring bizarre circumstances (eg single parent of a toddler with a tracheotomy) the wrong choice
TAKE A MAJOR CLASS and keep applying elsewhere if you so choose.
Voluntarily staying another year at a regional is, barring bizarre circumstances (eg single parent of a toddler with a tracheotomy) the wrong choice
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