WSJ attacks 1500 hour rule causing pilot shor
12-29-2021, 07:02 AM
#11
Furloughed Again?!
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: Boeing 737
Posts: 4,796
I don't remember nearly as much thrash in the mid 1990s when minimums to fly a 32 seat turboprop were 2500 TT and 1500 ME.
Or to fly a 19 seat turboprop we're 1500TT and 500 ME plus a $10,000 PFT with FlightSafety just to get through the door.
We just kept on grinding. Primary instruction... then instrument instruction... then multi engine instruction... then we flew cancelled checks... then some charter...
Gotta want it.
Or to fly a 19 seat turboprop we're 1500TT and 500 ME plus a $10,000 PFT with FlightSafety just to get through the door.
We just kept on grinding. Primary instruction... then instrument instruction... then multi engine instruction... then we flew cancelled checks... then some charter...
Gotta want it.
12-29-2021, 07:05 AM
#12
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,549
Originally Posted by KirillTheThrill
That’s plan B, this is the much easier and cheaper plan A.
I'd actually say it's plan C. Plan A is to get the government to subsidize flight training.
Originally Posted by boat
Student pilots and CFIs are ecstatic.
CFIs for sure, maybe not so much student pilots. A buddies wife just wanted to get her Private for fun. She went to a few flight schools and they have a 50 person waiting list. Crazy.
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
I don't remember nearly as much thrash in the mid 1990s when minimums to fly a 32 seat turboprop were 2500 TT and 1500 ME.
Or to fly a 19 seat turboprop we're 1500TT and 500 ME plus a $10,000 PFT with FlightSafety just to get through the door.
We just kept on grinding. Primary instruction... then instrument instruction... then multi engine instruction... then we flew cancelled checks... then some charter...
Gotta want it.
Or to fly a 19 seat turboprop we're 1500TT and 500 ME plus a $10,000 PFT with FlightSafety just to get through the door.
We just kept on grinding. Primary instruction... then instrument instruction... then multi engine instruction... then we flew cancelled checks... then some charter...
Gotta want it.
I agree with you that you have to want it. But, I'd say in the 90s, there was no shortage of pilots being made and/or coming out of the military. In fact, the military pumped out an insane amount of pilots in the 80s/early 90s as compared to today. There were also a lot more places to build time back then. I was in college in the early 2000s and there were 6 or 7 entry level night freight outfits that I was looking at...only one of them is still in business.
Last edited by crewdawg; 12-29-2021 at 09:18 AM.
12-29-2021, 07:32 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 3,595
Originally Posted by AYLflyer
This is exactly what the 1500hr rule did.
Get rid of it, and you'll have food stamp wage regional pay scales again.
Get rid of it, and you'll have food stamp wage regional pay scales again.
12-29-2021, 07:33 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 176
I've been flying for decades. Since getting my certificate, I was a better pilot at 250 hours, a better pilot at 1,000 hours and a better pilot still at 1,500 hours. That still holds true today with each hour logged after thousands of hours more.
An airliner is probably the most complicated piece of machinery that one will ever operate, in one of the most complex operating environments. And dozens, if not hundreds, of human lives are participating in this. It is no place for a beginner.
It would be nice to see every pilot walk out on the job if 1,500 hour rule is repealed. If we can't fly with safety as our first priority, we shouldn't.
An airliner is probably the most complicated piece of machinery that one will ever operate, in one of the most complex operating environments. And dozens, if not hundreds, of human lives are participating in this. It is no place for a beginner.
It would be nice to see every pilot walk out on the job if 1,500 hour rule is repealed. If we can't fly with safety as our first priority, we shouldn't.
12-29-2021, 07:43 AM
#15
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Baja Vermont
Posts: 5,177
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
Yet more proof that corporations are running this country, not the people. The 1500 hour rule is costing the airlines a ton of money which bleeds over into every industry. So it must go, safety be damned!
The WSJ is the #1 propaganda tool of corporations. It's the CNN of the corporate world.
The WSJ is the #1 propaganda tool of corporations. It's the CNN of the corporate world.
12-29-2021, 08:40 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Position: On the hotel shuttle
Posts: 5,812
Originally Posted by ZapBrannigan
I don't remember nearly as much thrash in the mid 1990s when minimums to fly a 32 seat turboprop were 2500 TT and 1500 ME.
Or to fly a 19 seat turboprop we're 1500TT and 500 ME plus a $10,000 PFT with FlightSafety just to get through the door.
We just kept on grinding. Primary instruction... then instrument instruction... then multi engine instruction... then we flew cancelled checks... then some charter...
Gotta want it.
Or to fly a 19 seat turboprop we're 1500TT and 500 ME plus a $10,000 PFT with FlightSafety just to get through the door.
We just kept on grinding. Primary instruction... then instrument instruction... then multi engine instruction... then we flew cancelled checks... then some charter...
Gotta want it.
How dare you expect them to pay dues.
-- signed a regional puke from the 1990's that actually paid dues.
12-29-2021, 09:07 AM
#17
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 1,852
Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
But if the government prevents you from landing a $60,000/yr job flying a 76-seat passenger jet with a wet commercial ticket it's a travesty of epic proportions.
How dare you expect them to pay dues.
-- signed a regional puke from the 1990's that actually paid dues.
How dare you expect them to pay dues.
-- signed a regional puke from the 1990's that actually paid dues.
There's a reason the AMA and National Bar Associations make it so hard to get into medical schools and law schools...
12-29-2021, 09:27 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Originally Posted by SonicFlyer
Except that the 1500 hour rule for 121 FOs was never about safety. This was known since the day it was implemented.
So are any of the other hour requirements in part 61 about safety? Or are they arbitrary numbers picked by someone many years ago? Should we get rid of ALL hourly experience requirements in all parts of the FARs?
12-29-2021, 09:37 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,061
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
The Children of the Magenta have had a shortcut their entire careers. They don't even bother to get a CFI anymore. Most have never flown single pilot IFR. Building time and learning their skills like we did is out of the question. So naturally, they want to remove this barrier to entry that is supporting the pay scales of the entire industry. Along with airline management.
There's a reason the AMA and National Bar Associations make it so hard to get into medical schools and law schools...
There's a reason the AMA and National Bar Associations make it so hard to get into medical schools and law schools...
Also, virtually all pilots have to get CFIs these days because there are very few opportunities to gain hours following the completion of a commerical certificate other than instruct. Most companies require 500 hours just for insurance minimums.
12-29-2021, 10:18 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 446
Originally Posted by Margaritaville
The Children of the Magenta have had a shortcut their entire careers. They don't even bother to get a CFI anymore. Most have never flown single pilot IFR. Building time and learning their skills like we did is out of the question. So naturally, they want to remove this barrier to entry that is supporting the pay scales of the entire industry. Along with airline management.
There's a reason the AMA and National Bar Associations make it so hard to get into medical schools and law schools...
There's a reason the AMA and National Bar Associations make it so hard to get into medical schools and law schools...
I get it, it’s a tale as old as time, the older generation had it harder than the younger. It’s the same thing people in the generations before you said about you. That’s the thing about progress, it is supposed to make our lives easier. Don’t denigrate the younger ones simply because they have it different.
I know of people who held on to their paper charts until the last moment because they refused to go to an iPad. Does that make them better?
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