Mainline really means anybody who sells their own tickets and also has outsourced FFD. It distinguishes between the two.

So really applies to all five legacies and even FDX (does brown have any regional feed? I think they just use trucks).

Very true.

I am the first to admit this job is amazing and I dont deserve it. I am about as dumb as a box of rocks.

With that said, I do tire of the Delta is the best for everyone mantra. I find it hard to believe. Wait, I forgot, the UPS/Fedex guys will be along soon to tell us how they are better than Delta. Its tiring. We get it, you all are great, we all suck, and we should give up 4yrs seniority at AAL for Delta in hopes of getting hired by UPS then hopefully Fedex.

Have you ever even seen a Delta pilot talk about Delta? The sky is falling in that forum. Any "Delta is the best" is really just projection.

Wiggins Airways is a 135 that does Cargo for UPS (and FedEx)

Hmm. That sounds more like an inferiority complex. I saw a LOT of that at my company, United, before Oscar Munoz took over as CEO. It even lasted a bit into his tenure.

I understand that American is the current legacy punching bag, but that will change. It may take a few years but it will change.
And things could be a lot worse. You have it better than 99% of all people walking this planet.

We don't walk it, we fly it. C'mon Man - keep up

So jetBlue is "mainline" because they use AA as their outsourced FFD :)

I dunno. You might under-estimate Doug's legacy.

3. I think the “mainline SkyWest” joke went over your head :)

No, I think your joke goes over your own head. If SkyWest pilots thought they were mainline, the attrition rates wouldn’t be the highest of any airline in the US or abroad. They’ve had over 400 pilots leave for greener pastures in the last 2 months. That sure sounds like a group of guys and gals who already think they’re mainline doesn’t it?

I’m prior SkyWest, as well as Rick. What he stated is correct. The “SkyWest mainline” joke originated from the CRJ pilots having fun with the ERJ pilots.

it actually goes back (at least) to the brasilia vs crj

I’d believe it, I was still in grade school before those glory days. I’ve heard some classic stories of the Cali surfer bros. I was hired on with the company when they were already too big for the mischief, but some of those stories are instant classics.

Wait. What???
400 in 2 months?
How many LCAs and instructors are left?
Or do they not use line pilots for instructors?
That's what, about 8% of their pilots, right?
How are they doing on newhires and are they able to train them with that kind of attrition?
Are there many more at Skywest looking to leave?

No wonder United's cancelling so many of Skywest's routes.

Asking way to many questions Andy 😂😂. Maybe give Chip a call over in St. George.

It was mentioned on their threads, 240 last month and 160 this month. I know they like to hire over 200 a month, but remember not everyone’s cut out for this line of work, which results in wash outs, maybe 160 make it on the seniority list.


Edit: correction, a post claims 189 this month, plus 241 last month is 430 pilots gone in 2 months and the hiring hasn’t even started.

I'm not THAT curious. ... on second thought, please post Chip's number (who the heck is Chip and why do I care?). I won't call, but I'd bet a dollar that someone here would if you posted the number.

I think 80% making it to the line is optimistic, as I suspect poaching from other airlines is on the increase.

Since you were at Skywest, you should at least be able to answer who they use as instructors there for ground training and sims - are they line pilots or are they ground instructors?

It's not the highest though. Envoy lost 93 in January and their pilot group is only 2100 pilots.
Fun times everywhere.

Endeavor lost 68 in Dec and 57 in Jan..our list is sub 2000

They’re line pilots. Majority live in DEN or SLC and make 2-300 a year. They won’t be going anywhere. If you’re seeking for an achilles heel at SkyWest, It’s not through the training department.

This is true. I could have stayed and made that doing 20+ days in the sim, but elected to go to a major and be an airline pilot. Came down to what I wanted to be when I grew up.

Could be a cushy gig if you live near the sims, although they did tend to rent sims in various locations when I was there so it was hard for instructors to avoid road trips.

Yes, i was wondering if Skywest was losing a lot of instructors, as that is happening at some airlines with high attrition.

Xjt-cal flow seemed to fix a lot of the issues legacies are facing now. I don’t like flows but this one seemed to work well. You flowed and kept your rj captain rate until pay at cal caught up. If instructor attrition became a problem at xjt you got a hire date and started longevity at cal but stayed at xjt until new instructors were trained. I believe the major issue became UAL argued that the instructors hire date wasn’t valid at cal until they actually went through Indoc so they got hosed on the sli a bit? That problem could be worked out going forward.

Something else to consider if you want to be happy long term: Delta is very focused on diet culture whereas AA and UAL are more body positive. It's not just uniform-deep.

Can you give real examples of this at each?

Now that’s complete BS. I was based out of MSP for 5 years, you should see the amount of fat ass DL pilots that roam that place. Its safe to say they haven’t missed a good meal in years. I don’t mean anything from it, but as usual you’re full of it.

I think we need a new thread for who has the fattest pilots.

I can see how some type of program could be implemented at a regional that exclusively serves one airline, but how would such a plan be possible with companies like Republic or SkyWest that serve multiple airlines? Legacy airlines aren’t going to want to offer incentives that could also help staff their competitors.

Then they don’t implement these programs at those airlines?

Those companies do a large amount of lift for various legacies and are facing the same unsustainable attrition issues. All of the regionals are having the same problem, and you can’t just shift aircraft that you don’t own to exclusive carriers and implement some type of recruiting/retention program. I don’t know what a realistic solution is, but I suspect that 2022 will not be uneventful.

Some years back when SkyWest was contract flying for multiple partners, as they are currently now, United made an offer (supposedly) to buy out SkyWest. United also tried to implement a flow program as well, both times shot down by SkyWest management because it was only beneficial for a single party.

This has never been about anything but SkyWest management not wanting these programs because of a belief it’s “bad for business”. Well with the current new guaranteed interview with 3 of their partners (United, Delta, Alaska) it seems they’ve come around to the fact they won’t have a business if they stick to their old ways.

The information above doesn’t mean much at this point. I don’t know what’s going to happen, but I wouldn’t take flow programs out of the scenario for places like SkyWest and Republic. This regional slippage will have negative effects on the legacy’s bottom line as well. The next year of earnings calls will no longer have government aid included in the financials, and I’m nervous tbh. SkyWest isn’t going to be the last airline to report a reduction in flying this summer due to staffing issues.

AA under AMR had Eagle as a wholly owned flow-thru regional. Let’s see how well that worked. I remember we had about 130 go over and 600 came back.

How about the majors that need feed integrate them all. Put them all under one company and start at the bottom. One List! Yeah ok.

Here's a radical idea. Instead of keeping the regionals on life support with bonuses and flow through scams let them die of attrition and fly those routes at mainline. This isn't 2005 where regional feed was half the cost of mainline. With all the bonuses and BS it's on par in costs with a lot worse service. Even the Mighty E175 could be flown by mainline pilots. Every mainline contract has rates for 'em. It's time for the regionals to die and the biggest mistake ALPA has ever made to be fixed. The pilot shortage is a golden opportunity to put the RJ genie back in the bottle.

Yup!! https://media4.giphy.com/media/26FLg...GAbm/giphy.gif

Agreed. Just remember, some of these regional airlines have grown themselves into a potential threat if the plug is pulled. Skywest is sitting on over 200 self owned 175’s with 5600 pilots. Republic 150 self owned 175’s and around 2,500 pilots. They also have those pilots on low wages compared to the industry. Both have orders in for 175-E2’s (Skywest 100 orders) which is a very fuel efficient aircraft (we’d be waiting for years at United before we saw any new 175’s other than the small fleet we currently own and contract out)

The point I’m making, you pull the plug now there’s a potential huge threat from a competitive standpoint, especially Skywest.

So are you suggesting SkyWest would "take their ball and go home", go it alone and operate under their own code? Good luck with that. Jerry and Chip have been threatening that for years. They can't get pilots now SkyWest is hemorrhaging. Call their bluff. Buy their planes and options when they go bankrupt. FedEx ripped the band aid off with Amazon and are better off for it. It's time the legacy carriers do the same with the non wholly owned regionals.

Sweet hoorah speech from the Allegiant pilot. The same reason Mesa is still around is the same reason Allegiant is still flying around at those abysmal 73 rates. Thanks for keeping the industry pilot pay honest and ****ing up our negotiations for years.

Weak. Big talk from a former SkyWest pilot and United half wing. Oh I'm sorry I missed the APC rule that those who work for certain airlines can't have opinions. It's likely I have more time inside the marker than you have total time so yeah my opinion on industry issues > your opinion.

I don’t know that your time on an allegiant plane inside the marker gives you a better idea of what Skywest has going on then someone who recently worked there for years.

that poster still thinks Jerry is “threatening” to go it alone (something he never did), so I’d just disregard the whole thing

You’re throwing shade at me for being a half winger? LOL. Depending on the Captain, it’s more than free drinks btw, which I know is right down your alley Margarita boy.

Aggressive response and didn’t answer the question, but ok. I’ll rephrase. Do you think all that time inside of the marker somehow gives you a better idea of what is going on at Skywest than a pilot that recently worked there?