AW saved US Airways
 

I don't work for either but I hear alot of the complaints. If the East guys don't like the arbitrators decision, they have the right to pick up their toys and go home. To disrupt customers travel itineraries (tactics are well known) for the sake of their &%$#^@ selfish desires says alot. It shows how pathetic those guys are. Get over it. At least you have a job.

AW should have let Airways go out of business for one day, expire all of the labor contracts and sat back watching all of the Airways, unemployed, employees come crawling back asking to be stapled to the bottom.

Sorry if this is inflamatory. I just finished a discussion with an Airways guy that thought the aquisition was a merger and the list should have been DOH.

It was like Bush, etc telling us the current immigration bill isn't amnesty. UGH!:rolleyes:

i agree with you on the amnesty bit, however, this sounds like flame bait? you work for neither, so why do you care? sounds like you are swa? mind your own bidness!:cool:

A merger is not complete unless everybody is ticked off. Both groups wanted to completely screw the other, East wanted date of hire which would have been a stapler (more or less) and West wanted a ratio to ensure the West guys made out like bandits... The seniority lists were so differently made up a merger is difficult at best. I am glad I am watching from the sidelines.

I don't work for either, but did a lot of JSing on both during that time period. The cactus guys seemed way more reasonable in their expectations, the AAA guys just wanted to staple HP.

If I were to mind my own "bidness", then I wouldn't be on this site. And if you were to mind your own "bidness", then you wouldn't have responded to my post. Pretend you have a brain cell and respond to the post. You sound like you work for UAL.

I do care cuz the Airways guys don't seem to realize who saved whom. They are all for screwing the AW guys for their own agenda. Fact is that their management sucked, they were on the brink of going out of business, etc.
Binding arbitration is just that. Suck it up.

I for one would mind my own biz if the East guys didn't cause pax delays. I have been on 2 of them in the last 3 weeks. Super slow taxi and waiting to start engines until the tug is completely disconnected, letting multipile corp jets cut in front, etc etc. Even though I don't work there, their actions have begun to impact me. And before you ask, yes I was one a full fare ticket and not j/s-ing

AW did not save US Airways. And if they were a part of a package deal that saved US Airways, they surely weren't alone. What about the two so-called "Regional" carriers whose management ponied up tens of millions of dollars of exit financing? Maybe you think the pilots of those two companies should have seniority numbers? How high up the list? Maybe I should be on top of the list because my company ponied up some critical money. How 'bout that? Were you fighting for me in that aribration? I don't think so.

Go find a hobby or something instead of coming on an internet forum and whining about something like this and being inflamatory.

Sooo.. You claim that AW didn't save Airways.. But they may have been involved in a package deal (to save Airways).. There may have been 2 regionals that helped save Airways...(and your job, by the way),. Okay....

Then comes the true, concern... Your seniority number and how this aquisition affected you. Priceless!

David Bonderman and the Texas Pacific Group. That's who. :D

Tom

Regardless of who saved whom, the east guys are directing their anger at the wrong party. This decision was made by an arbitrator, not by the west guys. It's either going to be upheld by ALPA or not. My guess is that it will be upheld. At that point, the east guys can either choose to live with it, or burn the house down.

For the sake of the guys I know on both sides, I hope they don't run the company into the ground (more than it already has been, that is).

filler filler....

edited my post out of existence.

If I was an "East" guy, I would say, "burn the house down". But...I am not. These mergers and the strife that arises from them is ALWAYS the result of the actions of the Upper management. They are NEVER the result of the "you and me" folks doing the job. I hope I am never ALPA, I have seen too much to hope to be represented by that bunch. Eastern. PanAm. TWA. AAA. and all these people keep paying alpa. Lord help us. When are we going to break this cycle. We are all professionals who do the same thing yet alot of us still gauge our success by the company we are with. So naive. I feel the pain of the AAA pilots.
WG

I am a Teamster and it isnt any better with IBT, we all have to take control of our destiny. Take it out of the hands of ALPA and Teamsters. Not sure what the answer is but it sure doens't seem to be the 2 main representative unions available to us pilots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oVuLJS_Eok

everybody needs to get past this "who my company is" attitude and wake up to the reality that we are ALL professional pilots under attack by those that employ us, IE: those that need us to make money for them.
Can we please start from that viewpoint when we begin our arguments?

Cheers,
WG

United, Delta, American, Northwest, USAir/America West, Frontier, JetBlue, SWA, FEDEX/UPSwho cares? The company is not here for us, we are here for ourselves, let's get with that program.

Cheers,
WG

I thought the Teachers' Retirement Fund saved US Air.

Those two regionals I understand have already cashed out on their investments (making quite a bit of cash) which they would have lost altogether without the America West deal.

Good for the owners. They did indeed make a lot of $$$.

Mergers suck. I am on the right seat of an RJ because of one of them.

Thankfully nobody actually got forced to the street in the US Airways/America West "deal/transaction". There will always be winners and losers in such deals.

Nature of the beast unfortunately.

The Teachers fund out of Alabama saved AAA during the 2 rounds of CH 11 until they could find someone willing to buy them out. That was Parker and AWA. TPG (Bonderman) was a major (controlling) investor in AWA. As part of this deal TPG took their millions in profits and went away. TPG was also a big player in CO.

Without this deal AAA was history. The merger was in May, AAA would have been out of cash by September. AWA may have been in trouble (relatively speaking - we would have deferred delivery of jets due the next year) had fuel prices continued to rise but they did not. We still made money. I would like to see the East guys focus more on getting a joint contract than on the seniority list. There was no windfall for the West - all our upgrading stopped and the new jets we had on order are going East. We were supposed to get 12 more 757s at AWA - they never showed up - the East got 3 of them. Now with the new Airbus order where do you suppose the A350s will go? Remember, AWA held the original order for 20.

Question,

I used to work for AWA an my emp # was P1766....

Were would that put me on the intergration list??? FO? Capt? W/B or N/B?

Just a wonderin' on this beautiful summer morning...

Guess that was good for the industry, because if your windfall stands, you are both history. Hell, maybe even if the windfall is thrown out. You make it sound like DParker has a clue. In 2004, the great employees @ AmWest were experiencing their only facsimile of success since it's impressive 83-86 stint. And DP does what, buys an airline with a sicklier history than AmWest. High on this unfamiliar smell of success (2004) he gambled it all away. When everybody else saw this as bad for both airlines, but especially AmWest, he tried it again with Delta. D Parker is no savior, the sooner you realize this the more likely you won't liquidate. Oh yeah, don't believe you are profitable. EVERY airline reporting profits are actually reporting employee concessions and at least 80% of those are from the east. Rome is burning. Unfortunately, West has the water and East has the buckets. You better get it together.

AMEN, Brother!

Tom

I agree. HP did not save US. Together, they are better than seperate, but I truly wish there was an equitable solution (not DOH, not staple) of these two groups. Neither group deserves a 'windfall' in seniority, as evidenced by AA's acquisition and wholesale destruction of TWA and its employee group.

But there is no DOH and there is no staple in this seniority list. The list has the top 517 slots given to the AAA widebody pilots, then the list is a ratio that amounts to relative seniority, i.e. an AAA Captain stays a Captain, an AWA Captain stays a Captain. How is relative seniority unfair? It does not protect longevity but that is a direct result of the long term failures at AAA. ALPA cannot atone for the failures of a pilot's career. It is unfortunate that there are 18 year F/Os at AAA but they have no right to go ahead of an AWA Captain who has been here 8 years. We were the ones with 6 year upgrades. By the way, America West had a much longer period of corporate success in the last 20 years than did US Air.

I agree, though, that Parker is an idiot. He needs to focus on running an airline. Ufortunately the best manager at the company, Jeff MacClelland, the former president, died of cancer last year. He was the one responsible for the turnaroung in operational performance. I also agree that we are better off as one airline IF the East pilots pull theselves out of this funk and work together for a joint contract. They have the most to gain.

Check 6, I will do a little research on your postion had you stayed. I will tell you that you most likely made the right decision, although you could hold the 757 as a reserve Captain, or a lineholder as A320 Capt.

Check 6 you would be between 2217 (P1765) and 2221 (P1769), out of a total of 6520 on the list. I don't know the active number, I believe the East has about 1400 still furloughed. And there have been retirements and resignations since the snapshot of the list was taken.

July 17, 2007

MEC Special Update





The America West and US Airways MECs met today in joint session today at the request of ALPA President John Prater. The Executive Council, ALPA attorneys, JNC Members and staff were also in attendance.



The meeting began with opening remarks from Captain Prater and an introduction from the Rice Committee formed by Executive Council resolution. This committee is comprised of Capt. Paul Rice, ALPA First-Vice President and United Airlines pilot, Captain Dave Webb, Federal Express MEC Chairman and Captain Ray Miller, Northwest Airlines MEC Vice Chairman and member of the Executive Council. This committee has clearly stated that their objective is not to tell either side what to do, but instead provide a perspective to the issues facing both our pilot groups and facilitate the development of options to bring the groups back together.



The committee led the discussions, outlining three potential bargaining solutions: A single joint contract, separate contracts and section 6 negotiations for the west. Over the course of the afternoon, they led the group by exploring pros and cons of each option. It was clear to the AWA MEC that either the Section 6 option or the separate ops/contract options had many challenges, not the least of which would be that the effect on the Nicolau Award would be similar to overturning the Award itself.



Regardless of which option was discussed, representatives of the East MEC have made it clear that there are no acceptable solutions absent vacating the seniority award. Several times they notified the entire group that they believe that their pilot group will engage in a process to decertify ALPA when the Executive Council rules to uphold the seniority arbitration.



Simultaneously, the West MEC did not participate in exploring these options but consistently offered their willingness to explore all ideas after the executive council rules on the east’s request to vacate the seniority award in order to achieve a mutually ratifiable joint collective bargaining agreement. Our MEC reviewed the importance of achieving a joint contract with significant economic improvements for all US Airways pilots and the Association as a whole.



While this meeting was an important step in bringing both pilot leaderships together for the first time since the award was announced, our MEC is committed to following ALPA’s Merger Policy and the AWA MEC repeatedly asked that the Executive Council respond to the AAA MEC’s request to overturn the Nicolau Award, and determine that the award is final and binding this week.