Garbage TA rates, what’s going on here?
10-06-2022, 02:07 PM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by Superviking
Organized labor is only weak because we have no recourse,the government won't let us strike.... That needs to be removed from the railroad labor act.
10-06-2022, 08:36 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by Superviking
Organized labor is only weak because we have no recourse,the government won't let us strike.... That needs to be removed from the railroad labor act.
The administration has NO ability to prevent us from striking, and this current administration has shifted the historical balance from the corporate side to our labor side.
The reason all 4 major airlines have been in negotiations for YEARS is that the pilot groups have been conditioned to be excessively patient, and many fear losing their livelihood during a strike.
It is inarguably the best time for pilot leverage in AT LEAST the past 20 years. There is ZERO chance of an airline replacing their pilot group. Where would they get the pilots? It’s quite unlikely we can even hire the numbers we hope to next year. All 4 management groups, when pressured, will accept union terms.
All 4 airline management groups have been regularly sending out emails telling us how much they appreciate us picking up the operational pieces during these ‘challenging times’. All while negotiating with us for a whole 4 days per month. As we get farther along in this process, and they feel more pressure, suddenly they’ll start meeting with the union more often. So, really, they don’t actually care about us right now, despite their claims, because they’re paying us what they want, and we’re fine with it.
I’m not sure who doesn’t know this, but the management cares ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY ABOUT PROFIT. And I don’t blame them, it’s only business. Shareholders are the highest priority, that is normal, and that’s how this is supposed to work. Us wishing for a contract is useless. They will only solve this problem when shareholders dividends are threatened, which means us threatening to stop work through a strike (actually getting to a strike is EXTREMELY unlikely, and even if it did, who would they replace us with? There are no more pilots) This environment is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than in years past, when they could actually hire a bunch of enthusiastic replacements.
We have only ourselves to blame for playing this game so poorly, and not recognizing our current environment. We should be showing the entire country how powerful unions can be.
Provide management, without emotion, with a zero concession contract, to make up what we’ve lost through inflation over the past couple years, along with a reasonable increase. Vote to strike, and start the cooling off clock. If we got our act together all 4 pilot groups could have new contracts by late spring. Anybody who tells you otherwise is either misleading you or doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Or complain about how the world isn’t fair. When the truth will be that we didn’t negotiate well.
10-07-2022, 02:52 PM
#43
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Engines Turn Or People Swim
Posts: 39,262
Originally Posted by bay982
Why will this myth not die.
The administration has NO ability to prevent us from striking, and this current administration has shifted the historical balance from the corporate side to our labor side.
The reason all 4 major airlines have been in negotiations for YEARS is that the pilot groups have been conditioned to be excessively patient, and many fear losing their livelihood during a strike.
The administration has NO ability to prevent us from striking, and this current administration has shifted the historical balance from the corporate side to our labor side.
The reason all 4 major airlines have been in negotiations for YEARS is that the pilot groups have been conditioned to be excessively patient, and many fear losing their livelihood during a strike.
This is not true, by a long shot. It takes years of negotiation (if management wants it to), in a manner palatable to the NMB in order to get released. The NMB, not unions, is tolerant of management delay tactics,,, oh we didn't have time to look at we need a few more weeks, it's literally "the dog ate my homework".
Then you better hope the political winds are in your favor when the time comes.
10-07-2022, 09:15 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by rickair7777
Huh?
This is not true, by a long shot. It takes years of negotiation (if management wants it to), in a manner palatable to the NMB in order to get released. The NMB, not unions, is tolerant of management delay tactics,,, oh we didn't have time to look at we need a few more weeks, it's literally "the dog ate my homework".
Then you better hope the political winds are in your favor when the time comes.
This is not true, by a long shot. It takes years of negotiation (if management wants it to), in a manner palatable to the NMB in order to get released. The NMB, not unions, is tolerant of management delay tactics,,, oh we didn't have time to look at we need a few more weeks, it's literally "the dog ate my homework".
Then you better hope the political winds are in your favor when the time comes.
Why did it take more than two years years to request mediation (from the NMB!) and start that clock?
Even the NMB can’t stonewall for years, hence you get them involved sooner.
The President himself won’t stop a strike—see Secretary Buttigieg’s personal involvement during the recently averted rail workers strike. The NMB process was complete. All legal methods to prevent a strike were exhausted, it was about to start before the DOT pressured management to cave.
The sooner we complete a strike vote the sooner we start that clock, the sooner we get a contract. It is under our control.
I just don’t understand how pilots are tolerant of this lackadaisical approach, particularly in this environment, with the current administration.
10-08-2022, 03:59 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2017
Posts: 2,099
Garbage TA rates, what’s going on here?
Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
The administration’s hand have been dealt. There is nothing, legally, they can do if the unions reject the TA, to prevent a strike. It would be up to congress at that point if they want to prevent a possible strike.
There is a difference between what administration’s legally can do and what often happens. If the union is told they aren’t released to self help, even though they have jumped through the legal hoops, they would then need to sue in Federal courts. This takes time and money.
There is a difference between what administration’s legally can do and what often happens. If the union is told they aren’t released to self help, even though they have jumped through the legal hoops, they would then need to sue in Federal courts. This takes time and money.
Alternatively, they can go on strike and put the onus on management to convince a judge to order an injunction.
Originally Posted by bay982
Why did it take more than two years years to request mediation (from the NMB!) and start that clock?
Even the NMB can’t stonewall for years, hence you get them involved sooner.
The President himself won’t stop a strike—see Secretary Buttigieg’s personal involvement during the recently averted rail workers strike. The NMB process was complete. All legal methods to prevent a strike were exhausted, it was about to start before the DOT pressured management to cave.
The sooner we complete a strike vote the sooner we start that clock, the sooner we get a contract. It is under our control.
I just don’t understand how pilots are tolerant of this lackadaisical approach, particularly in this environment, with the current administration.
Even the NMB can’t stonewall for years, hence you get them involved sooner.
The President himself won’t stop a strike—see Secretary Buttigieg’s personal involvement during the recently averted rail workers strike. The NMB process was complete. All legal methods to prevent a strike were exhausted, it was about to start before the DOT pressured management to cave.
The sooner we complete a strike vote the sooner we start that clock, the sooner we get a contract. It is under our control.
I just don’t understand how pilots are tolerant of this lackadaisical approach, particularly in this environment, with the current administration.
10-08-2022, 04:52 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2021
Posts: 1,449
Originally Posted by bay982
Why did it take more than two years years to request mediation (from the NMB!) and start that clock?
Even the NMB can’t stonewall for years, hence you get them involved sooner.
The President himself won’t stop a strike—see Secretary Buttigieg’s personal involvement during the recently averted rail workers strike. The NMB process was complete. All legal methods to prevent a strike were exhausted, it was about to start before the DOT pressured management to cave.
The sooner we complete a strike vote the sooner we start that clock, the sooner we get a contract. It is under our control.
I just don’t understand how pilots are tolerant of this lackadaisical approach, particularly in this environment, with the current administration.
Even the NMB can’t stonewall for years, hence you get them involved sooner.
The President himself won’t stop a strike—see Secretary Buttigieg’s personal involvement during the recently averted rail workers strike. The NMB process was complete. All legal methods to prevent a strike were exhausted, it was about to start before the DOT pressured management to cave.
The sooner we complete a strike vote the sooner we start that clock, the sooner we get a contract. It is under our control.
I just don’t understand how pilots are tolerant of this lackadaisical approach, particularly in this environment, with the current administration.
10-08-2022, 05:53 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
Originally Posted by ImSoSuss
Me thinks railroad workers will get a little more sympathy than airline pilots whom everybody assumes is rich already. Path won't be as easy for us, even with this administration.
No one feels bad for airline pilots.
10-08-2022, 10:44 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Aero1900
Definitely.
No one feels bad for airline pilots.
No one feels bad for airline pilots.
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