United vs Southwest vs Atlas
11-21-2022, 07:36 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 841
Originally Posted by nene
What legacy furloughed during COVID? Uncle Sugar came in with $$$Billions of tax money to make sure they didn't furlough. I know some RJ operators furloughed instead of taking PPP loans, but now aware of any legacy that actually furloughed anybody or they'd have to pay the Uncle Sugar money back.
11-21-2022, 10:21 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 734
Originally Posted by thrust
When is that WB order happening? How many of those new WBs are growth airplanes and how many are 767 and engine-failure 772A replacements?
Below are notes from a check airman at the recent standards meeting.
Scott Kirby
Triple digit new wide body order to be announced eoy (787/350)
• Urges Capts to engage customers when time allows...gate hellos, front of ac fc pax hello, etc..
• TA 1 ? Why failed?
• He uses “my North Star” analogy...grow big be best ALPA also needs to lead, etc...mentioned pandemic loa as an “insurance policy” for against shrinkage shutdown etc...
• TA 1 same principle....he engaged Todd to do a short term....had a bigger deal done but then Omicron hit so that deal was a no go; instead defaulted to TA 1 (transitional deal)
• Faults AMR for last minute “match” of our deal
• Now in “Mexican standoff” w AMR DAL UAL union (pattern bargaining) so this is then challenge
• Not sure if a deal will get done....but still wants a short term deal. • Competition
• Hubs getting fuller...space will be had by getting rid of RJs over the next few years...EWR to go to only ~50 RJs/day by few yrs.
• DEN will be biggest hub shortly and fastest grower
• IAD will double in size
• SFO LAX constrained ( getting gates at new terminal 9 lax)
• ORD constrained till AMR shrinks there (and he thinks they will soon)
• 80% chance of new crew base in.......”a warm state” ( that’s all he’d say😏 ) announce probably eoy
• RJ end game probably 250 76 seaters and 50 or so 550s.....no 50 seaters.
• JetBlue spirit and JFK slots
8
• JFK temporary pull down. Talking w ny n nj on why does Ewr have x depts w two parallels and jfk too but jfk has so many less depts?
• Thinks JbLu and spirit are crap airlines.putting two craps together get double crap..and we’ll clean their clocks and pickup allot of suntans
• AMR financial position
• They basically “turned their engines off and are just gliding)
• Amr can’t compete w us on long haul, six of nine hubs lose $, during their
😳 ....they’ll let UAL lead and they will follow...that’s their culture...so..continued glide path
presentation said their goal is to be a “second mover”
down...no new planes...shrink hubs mainline to RJs etc..
• “Only reason to shrink during a recession is if you think your not gonna survive the recession”. What we are gonna do is double down during thenR and pick up routes/pax
11-21-2022, 04:05 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 300
Originally Posted by Boeing Aviator
UAL pilot here. Our CEO says we will hire 8000 pilots over next 4 years. Seniority is everything. No disrespect to Atlas pilots, will they even be in business in 32 years? UAL has 500 NB’s on order and about to make a WB order of more WB’s than AA is presently flying. They say UAL size wise in 5 years will be like adding Lufthansa and Air Canada to the current United.
What a statement! Do you know where anyone will be in 32 months?
11-22-2022, 02:57 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,426
Originally Posted by Boeing Aviator
UAL pilot here. Our CEO says we will hire 8000 pilots over next 4 years. Seniority is everything. No disrespect to Atlas pilots, will they even be in business in 32 years? UAL has 500 NB’s on order and about to make a WB order of more WB’s than AA is presently flying. They say UAL size wise in 5 years will be like adding Lufthansa and Air Canada to the current United.
The Apollo purchase throws a wrench into things for Atlas, but Apollo’s track record isn’t terrible either.
11-22-2022, 02:52 PM
#75
Enjoying every day!
Joined APC: Dec 2021
Position: Left seat airplane, right seat rotor
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by e6bpilot
Take Atlas out of the equation altogether.
1. Drive to work. Even the coolest job sucks when you have a soul crushing commute to a junior hub.
2. All else being equal (live in a shared hub like Houston, LA, or the Bay Area), choose United. There is just more upside over a long career.
When it comes down to your own personal happiness, your time off is going to be the thing that matters so that you can be with the people you love and can do things like travel and take up hobbies. Commuting steals entire days from your life that you don't get back. Being junior and flying wide bodies is great until you figure out that you are sitting reserve in a hotel that you paid for in a city that you hate for days on end because you live somewhere that you don't work.
You are getting to the point in your career and your life when your time off is your biggest asset. You can turn that time off into personal enjoyment or you can use it to make more money. Take the job that is going to give you the most time off. That begins with no commute.
1. Drive to work. Even the coolest job sucks when you have a soul crushing commute to a junior hub.
2. All else being equal (live in a shared hub like Houston, LA, or the Bay Area), choose United. There is just more upside over a long career.
When it comes down to your own personal happiness, your time off is going to be the thing that matters so that you can be with the people you love and can do things like travel and take up hobbies. Commuting steals entire days from your life that you don't get back. Being junior and flying wide bodies is great until you figure out that you are sitting reserve in a hotel that you paid for in a city that you hate for days on end because you live somewhere that you don't work.
You are getting to the point in your career and your life when your time off is your biggest asset. You can turn that time off into personal enjoyment or you can use it to make more money. Take the job that is going to give you the most time off. That begins with no commute.
Spot on! Money is great…but as you get older time becomes more valuable than money… . Balance is the key to a happy life!
11-23-2022, 07:04 AM
#76
New Hire
Joined APC: May 2021
Posts: 2
The expat factor
I'd like to thank on behalf of the original poster for the contribution in this thread, there's a bunch of good takes here.
As most of you have realised the American Dream is more alive than ever and JetRider35, you are a lucky/successful man, in a position I hope to be in a couple of years from now, but I'm taking the uphill battle on my own.
Now, this forum whole lacks, for us expats, some perspective. And it's natural since it's assuming everybody is American or has deep roots in a place or another. As a matter of fact, digging around its hard to get this intel online, on any kind of website. Let me elaborate.
1. Drive to work. I've read, learned and agreed with that already. But with no ties in any particular place, we're back to square one: choosing the base. And how one does that?
There are a number of differences in regards to climate, cost of living, overall culture and even taxes. But how about street violence (believe me, growing up in a developing country, this is a massive factor)? How about the community from your same country? How easy would you make friends in town? Traffic and how close you can/want to live to the airport? And to your downtown area? If kids are/or will be in the picture, school system is important. Before this becomes a neighborhood battle, I know the US has everything for everyone somewhere. The excess of options almost part of the problem.
Ideally, take a base with solid same nationality community to help get established and feed the food cravings someone mentioned, in a community opened enough that you can become a part of, with a climate that agrees with your body, and some hobbies you value. Now, I'd love for someone to chime in tax-wise, I'm under the impression that somewhere may charge more your income, but the other will have higher product taxes and the other higher housing-related ones.
This must be a long hard decision. Choosing the base should almost proceed the airline.
My take? United. You have some base diversity to explore, same as fleet, and that's good. Plus, you'll probably be able to go back wherever home is to visit family on company metal.
As most of you have realised the American Dream is more alive than ever and JetRider35, you are a lucky/successful man, in a position I hope to be in a couple of years from now, but I'm taking the uphill battle on my own.
Now, this forum whole lacks, for us expats, some perspective. And it's natural since it's assuming everybody is American or has deep roots in a place or another. As a matter of fact, digging around its hard to get this intel online, on any kind of website. Let me elaborate.
1. Drive to work. I've read, learned and agreed with that already. But with no ties in any particular place, we're back to square one: choosing the base. And how one does that?
There are a number of differences in regards to climate, cost of living, overall culture and even taxes. But how about street violence (believe me, growing up in a developing country, this is a massive factor)? How about the community from your same country? How easy would you make friends in town? Traffic and how close you can/want to live to the airport? And to your downtown area? If kids are/or will be in the picture, school system is important. Before this becomes a neighborhood battle, I know the US has everything for everyone somewhere. The excess of options almost part of the problem.
Ideally, take a base with solid same nationality community to help get established and feed the food cravings someone mentioned, in a community opened enough that you can become a part of, with a climate that agrees with your body, and some hobbies you value. Now, I'd love for someone to chime in tax-wise, I'm under the impression that somewhere may charge more your income, but the other will have higher product taxes and the other higher housing-related ones.
This must be a long hard decision. Choosing the base should almost proceed the airline.
My take? United. You have some base diversity to explore, same as fleet, and that's good. Plus, you'll probably be able to go back wherever home is to visit family on company metal.
11-23-2022, 11:44 AM
#77
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Posts: 38
I will go against the main opinion on this thread which is to chose United. I had a CJO from UA and SWA. I was as well on 777 for a major carrier in ME and I chose Southwest. First when a majority of pilots decide to chose a path, it does not indicate it is the correct one to choose. I wanted the quality of life and the money on a shorter time. SWA offered both if you are willing to work for it.
1) Variety of flying:
- United do offer a lot of variety in terms of aircraft but does it matter? You don t see much when you are on a layover far from home, you basically recover for the next flight. The bases which do offer a nice network on 777 will never beat the network you had with your major in Dubai. They fly to a small number of destination per base. You want the nice flights to Europe in summer, then you got to be on an east coast base...higher cost of living etc. Better get days off in a row and go travel.
To have a nice board on the month, you need YEARS just to get out of Reserve on WB. To make myself an opinion, i asked friend in UA and checked the different rosters per base. Having a good QOL on WB takes years. Getting for example a great roster on WB in Denver is more than a decade away (correct me if i am wrong).
- Flying a 777, 757, 737 it s almost all the same, you still have to flare to land...people make a big deal of the 737 and it s still a great aircraft. Older yes and so what?
2) Quality of Life
- Southwest beats United overall. Go ask guys on global reserve how is that going?
- Base choice with an acceptable cost of living. In SWA you got amazing choices such as Orlando, Dallas, Phoenix etc...
- Minimum days off are higher at SWA.
- Ability to trade trips with the company or with others. No PBS makes life much easier. Once you re senior enough you can get lines with 10 days off in row in a single month, and combine two months....i did not see that (maybe i am not informed enough).
- Circadian rhythm: Doing night flights and changing time zone on a constant basis is what you get if you go to Atlas or to Ua on WB. Each their own, we all handle fatigue and time zone change differently. I had enough after 8 years. Swa has almost no night flights. Few airlines can say that...Ask the rosters on a particular base and fleet, check the timings...
- Staff Travel is better at United, you can list zed in business class and on UA too. SWA does not give that opportunity because of reciprocity.
3) Financial
- Upgrade is longer in Southwest by far. Nevertheless, what upgrade do you get in Ua? Unfilled positions, the senior guys don t want them for a reason. You ll be in reserve forever with the benefits of it )
- Furlough. Past performance isn t an indicator of future but Ua has a track record of furloughing very fast. Southwest does not.
- Ability to make more cash on first years. Southwest pays you Y2 to pick up anything extra on top of your line. You can easily make a good paycheck on Y1. Ask around and see if guys go above monthly guarantee in UA.
- Profit sharing, check the Unions PDF on average profit sharing through the years, it s a great indicator.
- Retirement contributions are good in both airlines.
- LTD is better at UA.
- You can make more money as a WB captain of course than as a NB captain of course or if you want a fast upgrade.
There are a lot of variables and there isn t a right or wrong answer. Right now the fashionable airline to apply to is United, in a few years it will be another one. They are both excellent companies. Do not base your decision on emotions, do a good research, look up on the Union web page the contract comparisons, w2 threads (not always accurate of course) ask friends who are in both airlines.
I wrote this long post and i might of course be wrong on some specifics. I wanted to contribute as it was very useful for me all the posts when I had to make the same decision. I hope it can help someone
Good luck
1) Variety of flying:
- United do offer a lot of variety in terms of aircraft but does it matter? You don t see much when you are on a layover far from home, you basically recover for the next flight. The bases which do offer a nice network on 777 will never beat the network you had with your major in Dubai. They fly to a small number of destination per base. You want the nice flights to Europe in summer, then you got to be on an east coast base...higher cost of living etc. Better get days off in a row and go travel.
To have a nice board on the month, you need YEARS just to get out of Reserve on WB. To make myself an opinion, i asked friend in UA and checked the different rosters per base. Having a good QOL on WB takes years. Getting for example a great roster on WB in Denver is more than a decade away (correct me if i am wrong).
- Flying a 777, 757, 737 it s almost all the same, you still have to flare to land...people make a big deal of the 737 and it s still a great aircraft. Older yes and so what?
2) Quality of Life
- Southwest beats United overall. Go ask guys on global reserve how is that going?
- Base choice with an acceptable cost of living. In SWA you got amazing choices such as Orlando, Dallas, Phoenix etc...
- Minimum days off are higher at SWA.
- Ability to trade trips with the company or with others. No PBS makes life much easier. Once you re senior enough you can get lines with 10 days off in row in a single month, and combine two months....i did not see that (maybe i am not informed enough).
- Circadian rhythm: Doing night flights and changing time zone on a constant basis is what you get if you go to Atlas or to Ua on WB. Each their own, we all handle fatigue and time zone change differently. I had enough after 8 years. Swa has almost no night flights. Few airlines can say that...Ask the rosters on a particular base and fleet, check the timings...
- Staff Travel is better at United, you can list zed in business class and on UA too. SWA does not give that opportunity because of reciprocity.
3) Financial
- Upgrade is longer in Southwest by far. Nevertheless, what upgrade do you get in Ua? Unfilled positions, the senior guys don t want them for a reason. You ll be in reserve forever with the benefits of it )
- Furlough. Past performance isn t an indicator of future but Ua has a track record of furloughing very fast. Southwest does not.
- Ability to make more cash on first years. Southwest pays you Y2 to pick up anything extra on top of your line. You can easily make a good paycheck on Y1. Ask around and see if guys go above monthly guarantee in UA.
- Profit sharing, check the Unions PDF on average profit sharing through the years, it s a great indicator.
- Retirement contributions are good in both airlines.
- LTD is better at UA.
- You can make more money as a WB captain of course than as a NB captain of course or if you want a fast upgrade.
There are a lot of variables and there isn t a right or wrong answer. Right now the fashionable airline to apply to is United, in a few years it will be another one. They are both excellent companies. Do not base your decision on emotions, do a good research, look up on the Union web page the contract comparisons, w2 threads (not always accurate of course) ask friends who are in both airlines.
I wrote this long post and i might of course be wrong on some specifics. I wanted to contribute as it was very useful for me all the posts when I had to make the same decision. I hope it can help someone
Good luck
Originally Posted by FlyingPequi
I'd like to thank on behalf of the original poster for the contribution in this thread, there's a bunch of good takes here.
As most of you have realised the American Dream is more alive than ever and JetRider35, you are a lucky/successful man, in a position I hope to be in a couple of years from now, but I'm taking the uphill battle on my own.
Now, this forum whole lacks, for us expats, some perspective. And it's natural since it's assuming everybody is American or has deep roots in a place or another. As a matter of fact, digging around its hard to get this intel online, on any kind of website. Let me elaborate.
1. Drive to work. I've read, learned and agreed with that already. But with no ties in any particular place, we're back to square one: choosing the base. And how one does that?
There are a number of differences in regards to climate, cost of living, overall culture and even taxes. But how about street violence (believe me, growing up in a developing country, this is a massive factor)? How about the community from your same country? How easy would you make friends in town? Traffic and how close you can/want to live to the airport? And to your downtown area? If kids are/or will be in the picture, school system is important. Before this becomes a neighborhood battle, I know the US has everything for everyone somewhere. The excess of options almost part of the problem.
Ideally, take a base with solid same nationality community to help get established and feed the food cravings someone mentioned, in a community opened enough that you can become a part of, with a climate that agrees with your body, and some hobbies you value. Now, I'd love for someone to chime in tax-wise, I'm under the impression that somewhere may charge more your income, but the other will have higher product taxes and the other higher housing-related ones.
This must be a long hard decision. Choosing the base should almost proceed the airline.
My take? United. You have some base diversity to explore, same as fleet, and that's good. Plus, you'll probably be able to go back wherever home is to visit family on company metal.
As most of you have realised the American Dream is more alive than ever and JetRider35, you are a lucky/successful man, in a position I hope to be in a couple of years from now, but I'm taking the uphill battle on my own.
Now, this forum whole lacks, for us expats, some perspective. And it's natural since it's assuming everybody is American or has deep roots in a place or another. As a matter of fact, digging around its hard to get this intel online, on any kind of website. Let me elaborate.
1. Drive to work. I've read, learned and agreed with that already. But with no ties in any particular place, we're back to square one: choosing the base. And how one does that?
There are a number of differences in regards to climate, cost of living, overall culture and even taxes. But how about street violence (believe me, growing up in a developing country, this is a massive factor)? How about the community from your same country? How easy would you make friends in town? Traffic and how close you can/want to live to the airport? And to your downtown area? If kids are/or will be in the picture, school system is important. Before this becomes a neighborhood battle, I know the US has everything for everyone somewhere. The excess of options almost part of the problem.
Ideally, take a base with solid same nationality community to help get established and feed the food cravings someone mentioned, in a community opened enough that you can become a part of, with a climate that agrees with your body, and some hobbies you value. Now, I'd love for someone to chime in tax-wise, I'm under the impression that somewhere may charge more your income, but the other will have higher product taxes and the other higher housing-related ones.
This must be a long hard decision. Choosing the base should almost proceed the airline.
My take? United. You have some base diversity to explore, same as fleet, and that's good. Plus, you'll probably be able to go back wherever home is to visit family on company metal.
11-26-2022, 06:59 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2021
Posts: 218
Originally Posted by Boeing Aviator
They say end of the year for triple digit Widebody order. I’d guess half replacement half growth.
Below are notes from a check airman at the recent standards meeting.
Scott Kirby
Triple digit new wide body order to be announced eoy (787/350)
• Urges Capts to engage customers when time allows...gate hellos, front of ac fc pax hello, etc..
• TA 1 ? Why failed?
• He uses “my North Star” analogy...grow big be best ALPA also needs to lead, etc...mentioned pandemic loa as an “insurance policy” for against shrinkage shutdown etc...
• TA 1 same principle....he engaged Todd to do a short term....had a bigger deal done but then Omicron hit so that deal was a no go; instead defaulted to TA 1 (transitional deal)
• Faults AMR for last minute “match” of our deal
• Now in “Mexican standoff” w AMR DAL UAL union (pattern bargaining) so this is then challenge
• Not sure if a deal will get done....but still wants a short term deal. • Competition
• Hubs getting fuller...space will be had by getting rid of RJs over the next few years...EWR to go to only ~50 RJs/day by few yrs.
• DEN will be biggest hub shortly and fastest grower
• IAD will double in size
• SFO LAX constrained ( getting gates at new terminal 9 lax)
• ORD constrained till AMR shrinks there (and he thinks they will soon)
• 80% chance of new crew base in.......”a warm state” ( that’s all he’d say😏 ) announce probably eoy
• RJ end game probably 250 76 seaters and 50 or so 550s.....no 50 seaters.
• JetBlue spirit and JFK slots
8
• JFK temporary pull down. Talking w ny n nj on why does Ewr have x depts w two parallels and jfk too but jfk has so many less depts?
• Thinks JbLu and spirit are crap airlines.putting two craps together get double crap..and we’ll clean their clocks and pickup allot of suntans
• AMR financial position
• They basically “turned their engines off and are just gliding)
• Amr can’t compete w us on long haul, six of nine hubs lose $, during their
😳 ....they’ll let UAL lead and they will follow...that’s their culture...so..continued glide path
presentation said their goal is to be a “second mover”
down...no new planes...shrink hubs mainline to RJs etc..
• “Only reason to shrink during a recession is if you think your not gonna survive the recession”. What we are gonna do is double down during thenR and pick up routes/pax
Below are notes from a check airman at the recent standards meeting.
Scott Kirby
Triple digit new wide body order to be announced eoy (787/350)
• Urges Capts to engage customers when time allows...gate hellos, front of ac fc pax hello, etc..
• TA 1 ? Why failed?
• He uses “my North Star” analogy...grow big be best ALPA also needs to lead, etc...mentioned pandemic loa as an “insurance policy” for against shrinkage shutdown etc...
• TA 1 same principle....he engaged Todd to do a short term....had a bigger deal done but then Omicron hit so that deal was a no go; instead defaulted to TA 1 (transitional deal)
• Faults AMR for last minute “match” of our deal
• Now in “Mexican standoff” w AMR DAL UAL union (pattern bargaining) so this is then challenge
• Not sure if a deal will get done....but still wants a short term deal. • Competition
• Hubs getting fuller...space will be had by getting rid of RJs over the next few years...EWR to go to only ~50 RJs/day by few yrs.
• DEN will be biggest hub shortly and fastest grower
• IAD will double in size
• SFO LAX constrained ( getting gates at new terminal 9 lax)
• ORD constrained till AMR shrinks there (and he thinks they will soon)
• 80% chance of new crew base in.......”a warm state” ( that’s all he’d say😏 ) announce probably eoy
• RJ end game probably 250 76 seaters and 50 or so 550s.....no 50 seaters.
• JetBlue spirit and JFK slots
8
• JFK temporary pull down. Talking w ny n nj on why does Ewr have x depts w two parallels and jfk too but jfk has so many less depts?
• Thinks JbLu and spirit are crap airlines.putting two craps together get double crap..and we’ll clean their clocks and pickup allot of suntans
• AMR financial position
• They basically “turned their engines off and are just gliding)
• Amr can’t compete w us on long haul, six of nine hubs lose $, during their
😳 ....they’ll let UAL lead and they will follow...that’s their culture...so..continued glide path
presentation said their goal is to be a “second mover”
down...no new planes...shrink hubs mainline to RJs etc..
• “Only reason to shrink during a recession is if you think your not gonna survive the recession”. What we are gonna do is double down during thenR and pick up routes/pax
Is Kirby really this arrogant? I mean he threatened to fire you guys over a vax you didn’t sign up for and it seems he’d love for you all to have your pronouns displayed on your badge but, is he really as as conceited as this post?
11-26-2022, 08:17 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 358
Originally Posted by MagicGoose
I will go against the main opinion on this thread which is to chose United. I had a CJO from UA and SWA. I was as well on 777 for a major carrier in ME and I chose Southwest. First when a majority of pilots decide to chose a path, it does not indicate it is the correct one to choose. I wanted the quality of life and the money on a shorter time. SWA offered both if you are willing to work for it.
1) Variety of flying:
- United do offer a lot of variety in terms of aircraft but does it matter? You don t see much when you are on a layover far from home, you basically recover for the next flight. The bases which do offer a nice network on 777 will never beat the network you had with your major in Dubai. They fly to a small number of destination per base. You want the nice flights to Europe in summer, then you got to be on an east coast base...higher cost of living etc. Better get days off in a row and go travel.
To have a nice board on the month, you need YEARS just to get out of Reserve on WB. To make myself an opinion, i asked friend in UA and checked the different rosters per base. Having a good QOL on WB takes years. Getting for example a great roster on WB in Denver is more than a decade away (correct me if i am wrong).
- Flying a 777, 757, 737 it s almost all the same, you still have to flare to land...people make a big deal of the 737 and it s still a great aircraft. Older yes and so what?
2) Quality of Life
- Southwest beats United overall. Go ask guys on global reserve how is that going?
- Base choice with an acceptable cost of living. In SWA you got amazing choices such as Orlando, Dallas, Phoenix etc...
- Minimum days off are higher at SWA.
- Ability to trade trips with the company or with others. No PBS makes life much easier. Once you re senior enough you can get lines with 10 days off in row in a single month, and combine two months....i did not see that (maybe i am not informed enough).
- Circadian rhythm: Doing night flights and changing time zone on a constant basis is what you get if you go to Atlas or to Ua on WB. Each their own, we all handle fatigue and time zone change differently. I had enough after 8 years. Swa has almost no night flights. Few airlines can say that...Ask the rosters on a particular base and fleet, check the timings...
- Staff Travel is better at United, you can list zed in business class and on UA too. SWA does not give that opportunity because of reciprocity.
3) Financial
- Upgrade is longer in Southwest by far. Nevertheless, what upgrade do you get in Ua? Unfilled positions, the senior guys don t want them for a reason. You ll be in reserve forever with the benefits of it )
- Furlough. Past performance isn t an indicator of future but Ua has a track record of furloughing very fast. Southwest does not.
- Ability to make more cash on first years. Southwest pays you Y2 to pick up anything extra on top of your line. You can easily make a good paycheck on Y1. Ask around and see if guys go above monthly guarantee in UA.
- Profit sharing, check the Unions PDF on average profit sharing through the years, it s a great indicator.
- Retirement contributions are good in both airlines.
- LTD is better at UA.
- You can make more money as a WB captain of course than as a NB captain of course or if you want a fast upgrade.
There are a lot of variables and there isn t a right or wrong answer. Right now the fashionable airline to apply to is United, in a few years it will be another one. They are both excellent companies. Do not base your decision on emotions, do a good research, look up on the Union web page the contract comparisons, w2 threads (not always accurate of course) ask friends who are in both airlines.
I wrote this long post and i might of course be wrong on some specifics. I wanted to contribute as it was very useful for me all the posts when I had to make the same decision. I hope it can help someone
Good luck
1) Variety of flying:
- United do offer a lot of variety in terms of aircraft but does it matter? You don t see much when you are on a layover far from home, you basically recover for the next flight. The bases which do offer a nice network on 777 will never beat the network you had with your major in Dubai. They fly to a small number of destination per base. You want the nice flights to Europe in summer, then you got to be on an east coast base...higher cost of living etc. Better get days off in a row and go travel.
To have a nice board on the month, you need YEARS just to get out of Reserve on WB. To make myself an opinion, i asked friend in UA and checked the different rosters per base. Having a good QOL on WB takes years. Getting for example a great roster on WB in Denver is more than a decade away (correct me if i am wrong).
- Flying a 777, 757, 737 it s almost all the same, you still have to flare to land...people make a big deal of the 737 and it s still a great aircraft. Older yes and so what?
2) Quality of Life
- Southwest beats United overall. Go ask guys on global reserve how is that going?
- Base choice with an acceptable cost of living. In SWA you got amazing choices such as Orlando, Dallas, Phoenix etc...
- Minimum days off are higher at SWA.
- Ability to trade trips with the company or with others. No PBS makes life much easier. Once you re senior enough you can get lines with 10 days off in row in a single month, and combine two months....i did not see that (maybe i am not informed enough).
- Circadian rhythm: Doing night flights and changing time zone on a constant basis is what you get if you go to Atlas or to Ua on WB. Each their own, we all handle fatigue and time zone change differently. I had enough after 8 years. Swa has almost no night flights. Few airlines can say that...Ask the rosters on a particular base and fleet, check the timings...
- Staff Travel is better at United, you can list zed in business class and on UA too. SWA does not give that opportunity because of reciprocity.
3) Financial
- Upgrade is longer in Southwest by far. Nevertheless, what upgrade do you get in Ua? Unfilled positions, the senior guys don t want them for a reason. You ll be in reserve forever with the benefits of it )
- Furlough. Past performance isn t an indicator of future but Ua has a track record of furloughing very fast. Southwest does not.
- Ability to make more cash on first years. Southwest pays you Y2 to pick up anything extra on top of your line. You can easily make a good paycheck on Y1. Ask around and see if guys go above monthly guarantee in UA.
- Profit sharing, check the Unions PDF on average profit sharing through the years, it s a great indicator.
- Retirement contributions are good in both airlines.
- LTD is better at UA.
- You can make more money as a WB captain of course than as a NB captain of course or if you want a fast upgrade.
There are a lot of variables and there isn t a right or wrong answer. Right now the fashionable airline to apply to is United, in a few years it will be another one. They are both excellent companies. Do not base your decision on emotions, do a good research, look up on the Union web page the contract comparisons, w2 threads (not always accurate of course) ask friends who are in both airlines.
I wrote this long post and i might of course be wrong on some specifics. I wanted to contribute as it was very useful for me all the posts when I had to make the same decision. I hope it can help someone
Good luck
11-26-2022, 08:24 AM
#80
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,676
Originally Posted by stang
Thank you for this. I am currently sitting with a SWA class date and have a United interview. Both were my top choices so I can't loose in the decision. It seems time off and QOL will be faster at SWA from my non scientific research. If I am fortunate enough to get a UAL offer with the opportunity to decide, it will be a very tough decision. I enjoy options to make changes and UAL provides more of that right now. The interview will give a bit more clarity (I hope).
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