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FDP Extension and Mixed Acclimation
I was wondering if anybody knew what the law (or its interpreters) say in the following scenario:
FAA 117 ops: The PIC is acclimated, the FO is not. They have now different FDP limits. Due to delays the FO needs an extension of the FDP limit prior to T/O. If the company and PIC agree (and the rest of the crew is not fatigued), up to 2 hours can be extended. Does the whole crew need 30 hours of rest before both their FDP limits can extended again or just the FO's? Can the PIC be extended again (before the 30h rest) as his original FDP limit was not exceeded? Thank you. |
Originally Posted by BkkPilot
(Post 3726706)
I was wondering if anybody knew what the law (or its interpreters) say in the following scenario:
FAA 117 ops: The PIC is acclimated, the FO is not. They have now different FDP limits. Due to delays the FO needs an extension of the FDP limit prior to T/O. If the company and PIC agree (and the rest of the crew is not fatigued), up to 2 hours can be extended. Does the whole crew need 30 hours of rest before both their FDP limits can extended again or just the FO's? Can the PIC be extended again (before the 30h rest) as his original FDP limit was not exceeded? Thank you. Solution also is never extend. If the science says you would most like be fatigued at the end of your FDP how can you make a conscious decision about an extension hours prior to the end of your FDP? You can’t. If it is near the end of your FDP you may be fatigued and not know it bc when you’re fatigued you don’t think clearly. The entire extension loophole goes against the entire basis of the science of fatigue. Never extend. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard stories from pilots that accepted extensions and then hours later on the approach they’re regretting that decision made hours ago when then felt fine. |
Originally Posted by Noisecanceller
(Post 3726721)
Solution also is never extend. Nobody should allow friends or family to risk their lives at Gojet and similar United Express regional operators. The pilots are pushed and threatened to operate beyond table B rest regulations. The Gojet safety statement would dictate that the extension is never utilized. Nobody in Gojet management honors their commitment to their signed safety statement. |
Originally Posted by TwoDaysBehind
(Post 3726804)
At several regionals, especially GOJET AIRLINES, the extension is mandatory and is used as part of regular operations. They'll schedule to the FDP limits, then act like its still "unforeseen operational circumstances" when running behind schedule all day. There is no mutual agreement needed, the pilot must extend 2 hours or use the fatigue call process which often leads to disciplinary issues. Gojet was sued multiple times for this, yet the practice continues.
Nobody should allow friends or family to risk their lives at Gojet and similar United Express regional operators. The pilots are pushed and threatened to operate beyond table B rest regulations. The Gojet safety statement would dictate that the extension is never utilized. Nobody in Gojet management honors their commitment to their signed safety statement. |
Originally Posted by chihuahua
(Post 3727445)
What has the FAA said about their practices? Or are they just threatening people, then cooking the books? What were the results of the lawsuits, did they pay anything out to anyone?
I agree with the concept of never extending and that has been my practice since 117. I also had the wonderful opportunity of going to a supplemental carrier and going back to the bad old days briefly. 117 works and I'm glad to be back operating under its auspices. |
Originally Posted by chihuahua
(Post 3727445)
What has the FAA said about their practices? Or are they just threatening people, then cooking the books? What were the results of the lawsuits, did they pay anything out to anyone?
Extension past 30 minutes triggers a mandatory report to the FAA. Gojet avoids this by not reporting true numbers/records. There's henchmen in their scheduling department/management who makes things disappear/appear fine with the FAA. |
Originally Posted by TwoDaysBehind;[url=tel:3726804
3726804[/url]]At several regionals, especially GOJET AIRLINES, the extension is mandatory and is used as part of regular operations. They'll schedule to the FDP limits, then act like its still "unforeseen operational circumstances" when running behind schedule all day. There is no mutual agreement needed, the pilot must extend 2 hours or use the fatigue call process which often leads to disciplinary issues. Gojet was sued multiple times for this, yet the practice continues.
Nobody should allow friends or family to risk their lives at Gojet and similar United Express regional operators. The pilots are pushed and threatened to operate beyond table B rest regulations. The Gojet safety statement would dictate that the extension is never utilized. Nobody in Gojet management honors their commitment to their signed safety statement. |
Originally Posted by kevin18
(Post 3727566)
yeah, eff that. My first call after scheds would be to the FAA inspector general.
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Originally Posted by TwoDaysBehind
(Post 3726804)
At several regionals, especially GOJET AIRLINES, the extension is mandatory and is used as part of regular operations. They'll schedule to the FDP limits, then act like its still "unforeseen operational circumstances" when running behind schedule all day. There is no mutual agreement needed, the pilot must extend 2 hours or use the fatigue call process which often leads to disciplinary issues. Gojet was sued multiple times for this, yet the practice continues.
Nobody should allow friends or family to risk their lives at Gojet and similar United Express regional operators. The pilots are pushed and threatened to operate beyond table B rest regulations. The Gojet safety statement would dictate that the extension is never utilized. Nobody in Gojet management honors their commitment to their signed safety statement. |
Originally Posted by trip
(Post 3727575)
This was long ago settled practice, unfortunately this is exactely how the FAA signed off on it. They also wrote that any diciplinary action is between the company and employee.
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